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4ft Rule go both ways?

Am I required to pass cars with 4 ft of clearance.


imakwik1
2012-09-07 18:02:29

Interesting question. When I am riding on Carson into work and exceeding the speed of traffic, because bikes hold up things, I have plenty of room and visibility. Would be nice to know though I think there are more times this is a bad idea than good.


orionz06
2012-09-07 18:04:47

No


chemicaldave
2012-09-07 18:10:25

Coworkers ask me this all the time.


The way I see it, cyclists should be ok passing within 4ft of a car, if and only if, the situation is safe enough to warrant it. Like a line of cars waiting for a red light to change...nobody is going anywhere and I have no problem cruising up along the should. Of course I keep a lookout for turn signals to try and avoid any potential hooking situations.


It's not like my arm or bike bumping a stopped car at 5-10mph is going to cause nearly as much damage as a car bumping me at 25-35mph.


2012-09-07 18:14:27

The driver of a motor vehicle overtaking a pedalcycle proceeding in the same direction shall pass to the left of the pedalcycle within not less than 4 feet at a careful and prudent reduced speed.


Even assuming that a cyclist is considered legally identical to "the driver of a motor vehicle", the law would seem to only apply if they are passing another cyclist, on the left.


reddan
2012-09-07 18:14:59

Where does one even find PA laws? I've been googling and can't find anything definitive.


2012-09-07 18:19:17

that's nice to know. just curious what the actual wording was.


imakwik1
2012-09-07 18:28:38

If you're googling, use


Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes Title 75


...and that gets you to Transportation.

The legis.state.pa.us domain is yer Harrisburg lawmaking & 'at.


The chapters in the 30s are what you're probably looking for.


stuinmccandless
2012-09-07 19:00:13

this may be as good a place as any to ask - last night I was on friendship, and a cyclist was between parked cars and me. I was hugging the curb on the left, and worrying about the door zone for them just when in fact somebody randomly opened a door. The cyclist avoided the door and me (I was just pulling past her). And I thought - there's no way for a cyclist to be in that bike lane and for ANY car to give 4 feet given the way cars park there.


I know the stripe of paint does nothing for protection, but it provides the illusion that passing closer is safe, even providing what looks like painted permission to cars to break the four foot law.


So the right thing to do would have been to follow the cyclist the length of the park without passing until it opened up (which it didn't). At least I think that's what I should have done and should do in the future.


What do you guys think?


ejwme
2012-09-07 19:07:01

I despise the Friendship Park bike lane and refuse to use it for this very reason.


Probably in that case, one of you should have dropped back and let the other go ahead so that you both could have escape room. After all, if something had come from your left--a squirrel, a kid's ball, a kid--you would've had the same difficulty avoiding it.


(ETA: When I drive I am loathe to hang back behind a cyclist in a situation like this, because the paranoid in me thinks it reads as stalkingish or something. But it's still better than screaming past them instead.)


epanastrophe
2012-09-07 19:21:59

oh, yeah, I was trying to go only slightly faster than the cyclist so that if anything did happen, we'd be going almost the same speed and maybe the physics wouldn't be as bad as it could be. I'd be shocked if I got up to 20 mph. But I didn't want to go creepy slow either. I really wish I could hang banners all over my car saying "no, really, I like cyclists and am trying to do the right and safe thing!!"


I definitely felt stalker-ish in the next few blocks, where the travel lane is barely big enough for a car and passing was impossible (she passed me, safely, at the next red light). I proceeded to just follow her all the way up to Penn, since there was traffic in front and no room to pass and it didn't seem to bother her. I tried to leave a safe, long, non-stalker amount of room between us (more than for a car), but I still felt more than a little like a jerk. :(


ejwme
2012-09-07 19:36:01

There's plenty of streets where I'll pull between parked cars to let a car behind me pass.


A car in front of me is my friend. A car behind me is (obviously) a homicidal maniac intent on killing me.


mick
2012-09-07 19:40:06

If you are in different lanes (bike is in bike lane and car is running in parallel in its own lane) then it's not overtaking. 4 ft is not required. It's similar to taking lane and riding close to line. You aren't required to provide 4 ft.


2012-09-07 21:30:45

I feel stalkerish when I lurk behind someone too. When I'm driving home from work on ARB and come across someone on a bike in rush hour, I usually end up tailing them for a while--mostly because it takes a while for a gap in traffic so I can pass with four feet of clearance. It can tell it makes some cyclists nervous though, and I'm not sure what to do about that.


I wish there were a way to communicate that I'd be glad to sit back there the whole way to Washington Blvd, just to block other ARB jerks in cars--I've ridden there too, and it's a little bit nuts.


2012-09-07 23:28:20

Let them be nervous. It's still the safest course of action.


ken-kaminski
2012-09-07 23:31:44

Well, I usually "cover" other cyclists on a complex/unpleasant part of the road when I am in my car. Just give cyclists a little distance -- 30 feet at least and they would not be so nervous. And position your car in a way that other car would not even think about passing.


2012-09-08 14:19:44

That's a great idea--I usually give three car lengths or so--I'll back off further. Thanks! There's no way anyone is going to pass me in rush hour on ARB (I guess never say never).


2012-09-08 15:25:17

Yeah, I back way off. If someone stays close enough to pass but isn't passing, it makes me nervous, but the further they stay back, the more I understand it as a signal of "do your thing, I know how this works and will be back here not hitting you"


2012-09-08 15:46:42

"I will be back here not hitting you" *simultaneous laugh and sigh*


2012-09-08 17:38:55

This is really good information. I drive a good bit myself from time to time, but have wondered what would be a non-threatening distance to follow a bike when passing is not an obviously safe option. Three car lengths is a simple enough rule of thumb. And I do like the idea of positioning the car in the lane to make clear to other drivers that passing is discouraged.


Also good information to pass along to other drivers.


stuinmccandless
2012-09-08 18:38:48