BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

I take it one step further. Not only do I have reflectors and lights but I have a cop biker jacket. Black and gold, the same colors as Pittsburgh City cycle cops. I figure if I look like a cop I'll be less likely to get run over.

Good plan, Kordite. You certainly do look authentic!

I also recommend installing an ejection seat on your bike and having a police helicopter shine a spotlight on you during your whole trip.

In all seriousness, though, is the best thing for cyclists to do is to where lots of reflective clothing or have tons of lights? Whatever it takes to keep people safe is cool in my book, but in reality there are going to be times when you're out and about later than you thought, so you're unprepared (particularly now that it gets dark at 5pm). So maybe wearing the right clothes isn't an option at that point...so does that leave more emphasis on having lights on your bike?

Or is it just the responsibility of a good biker to make sure they're prepared?

The jacket is my standard and it has a reflective strip (between the gold top and black lower part) so I will pretty much always have at least that. My trunk bag has my rear and front lights (detachable and kept with me so they don't get stolen while I'm at work) so that's pretty much always with me as well. I also have a blinky light on the back of my helmet and on my belt pouch so that I always have that with me. I'm like a zarking christmas tree.

And I think that's the best way to do it. Get some blinky lights that you can have constantly attached to your jacket or belt pouch or helmet or something so that, no matter what you go out with, you can have some sort of light with you. Forget your belt pouch because you threw stuff in your pockets instead, then you still have the light on your helmet.

I'm the same way with pocket tools and knives. I've got a tool on my keychain. Another thrown in my CamelBak. Some tools in my trunk bag. If I don't have any one of those things with me, I at least have some tools somewhere.

The riders I saw were on the road before 6pm and didn't even have reflectors on their bikes. You can't forget something like a reflector that is attached to your bike at all times.

I have a headlight attached to my handlebars and a blinky taillight attached next to the rear wheel. I have another blinky that I keep in my bag and wear a vest that I throw over whatever jacket I am wearing. In addition to all of this I have the standard set of reflectors attached to the bike as well.

to be honest, reflectors (as in, they reflect only light that hits them at the proper angle) are completely worthless.

that said, a blinky with a dead or dying battery is also pretty much worthless.

but a blinky properly positioned (not obscured by a bag or rack or fenders) with fresh batteries is completely necessary.

I disagree about reflectors. At the very least they are a least common denominator. When I am in a car at night reflectors are very visible in common driving conditions which would be a cyclist moving with, against or across traffic on a city street.

What is the harm in having them on a city bike?

the other thing about reflectors is that they move. when they are on a wheel, they become very visible, esp from the side

I see some value in pedal reflectors, as they're theoretically visible from both front and rear.

Reflective material on bags and fenders seems to work very well for visibility from behind.

Seat post and fork crown reflectors are too easily obscured with cargo for my taste.

Wheel reflectors seem of very limited utility, as the only way they're visible is if the bike is in front of the automobile and perpendicular to its path, aka across traffic. Personally, I'm not normally in such a position that a driver seeing me from the side will need/have time to do anything about it, as I'm very rarely stopped perpendicular to traffic.

{quoth rsprake} What is the harm in having them on a city bike?

As far as harm goes, none, really. Of course, the same argument could be made about a wide variety of other safety gear; most of us would not be hampered by wearing elbow pads or cervical collars, for example, but that doesn't mean we should all run out and buy some.

Let's Get Visible from Momentum

it's funny what lights can do. i only recently got a blinking led head lamp, as i just did my best to not bike at night over the summer (and as i've been [for some reason] a light-less bike commuter for years, i just always knew what to expect cars to do when they didn't see you), and the funny thing is that suddenly it seems i'm actually more visible at night than during the day.

i'm sure this is just an anomaly and a matter of perception. but it just seems like when i'm heading down a city street at top speed, approaching an intersection, the car that i look at and just KNOW is going to turn in front of me (you always know), well, it doesn't, not when i've got my blinking head lamp on. it's crazy.

like, three weeks ago, neon green wasn't bright enough to stop some fella from turning out of the central catholic parking lot onto neville in front of me and stopping dead in the middle of the street (i know folks just don't see us and there was no malice or neglect involved), but at night if i'm heading down liberty toward shadyside and i'm coming through the intersection at centre, where i have always just assumed anyone waiting would turn left across my path no matter how little time they had, if it's dusk and i've got my light blinking, they wait. magic!

my hands are still on the brakes, though. still, the visibility afforded by lights is, to quote a friend, a miracle.

i have a similar experience. i'm wondering if other factors are in play, like for instance it's harder for drivers to tell exactly how far away you are and how fast you're moving, so they just wait. also, during the day, you have a lot more cars on the road, causing more frustrated drivers who are more likely to act aggressive because they perceive themselves "in a hurry."

people just generally treat you nicer when you're visible at night.

Sheldon Brown has a good article on active lighting vs. passive reflectivity on his site.

I think folks at MINIMUM need both reflectors and front and rear lights fastened to the front and rear of their bikes. If you can supplement that with reflectors or reflective tape pointing to the sides (i have reflective sidewalls on my tires) or a jacket/helmet w/reflectors then great. Let's just make sure people have the bare minimum first.

I want everyone reading this to take a pledge this year to 1. make sure you have at least a front and rear blinkie (fully charged) and 2. to say something to another biker on the street riding w/o them. I do this all the time and have never gotten a negative response. All I say is "hey how's it going? You know, you should really get some lights for your bike. No one can see you." Usually they respond "I know" or "I left them at home." One guy last winter said "I'm going to buy them this week!"

I agree with Erok, motorists treat you better when they can see you.

Agreed. The first thing I did after spending $20 for a second-hand bike a few weeks ago was to drive directly to my local bike shop and drop $25 into front/back lights for it.

I was sold permanently on blinkies after almost getting creamed twice by someone making a left turn in front of me, once at night on Penn/Fifth, once in dim light on northbound Perry Hwy at 3Degree.

Now I use the front blinky anytime it's grey out, and the rear blinky in any busy traffic.

I'm not a Foresterite, usually, but he recommends a reflector in the back and some kind of light in front.

Cars coming up on you will see a reflector and cars coming out of a side street will need to see a lgiht bacuse they aren't shining on you.

I currently use two blinkies in the back. Never know when one has gone out. I'm thinking of getting an amber (3 times brighter than red) reflector on my back fender. Not wear out those batteries and no more saying "Jeez, I just rode from town to Mckees Rocks in the dark and NOW I find out my back light was out."

On the front? I have a real bike light now, but usually I use a flashlight or two and extra wide rubber bands. It sticks in my throat to buy a bike light for $25 bucks - and it's just a $4 flashlight with $1 worth of fasterners.

If I go a distance at night, I make sure I have an extra headlight, two tail lights and a third extra.

Finger lights! Sometimes Rite Aid has finger lights for $2. Little LED flashlights that velcro to your fingers.

Great to use in traffic - like, if you wave at a guy at a stop sign to GO, he will go, not creep forward just enough to block you and not enough to get out of the way.

Finger lights are really unreliable - I've had maybe 2 dozen and I've had only one that lasted long enough for the batteries to wear out - but at $2 a pop, that isn't too much of a problem.

I wear black too much, so I really need to be ON with lights and reflectors.

Mick

People on this site are probably already mostly responsible about being seen. It's not so easy passing the concept along. And trying to do it if you are in a car, not also on a bike? Totally useless. I tried to tell one guy that he was totally invisible (also riding with earphones) and even offer him my spare blinkie (which was in my pocket). Been a while since I got such an outpouring of hate. Not about being in a car, but about being a fat old b*tch n&zi telling people what to do.

D.C. had a "free bike light" handout a month ago. S.F. did it Nov. 2007 (and IS doing it again?). Of course, a lot of those lights go to people who can darn well afford to buy one, and possibly already have one at home. I'm going to suggest something more radical. We should give the cops a basketful of back blinkies, reflectors and headlights. And make the fine only ~$15 for riding light & reflectorless after dark, provided you take the light and blinkie and install it on your bike. (Plow the fines back into more lights.)

Not sure how to handle the battery situation (regular is not so ecological, rechargeable is expen$ive, and you need the charger as well). And what about people who have lights, but they're dead, and it's too late to buy more? The police are probably not thrilled about being a convenience store.

Following that thought, wouldn't if be great if local businesses (like coffee shops) had "first come first served" free AA battery chargers, the way many have free internet? That would have gotten me home with a much brighter blinkie on many occasions.

What is Free Ride's policy about selling and helping to repair bikes without reflectors?

See and be seen. Blinky lights and zero watt headlights are remnants of the bike as toy era when riding stopped at 6p.

Cars with reflectors, get real. They have powerful headlights for a reason. Match them with dual headlights, marketed exclusively mountain biking by the dumb bike companies. For side visibility, see SpokeLit by Niteize. For the rear, 10 blinkies.

If you want to make a fashion statement, light up. Plus, in most cases, your head is worth it.

Eric Lipsky, Erok and FreeRide taught me to stop parking my ride in the garage 12 out of 24 hours like I was trained to. Now, I cannot believe lighting is debated, same as helmets. If $ is the problem, then that's the issue.

Portland Police had a great program a few years ago where they pulled over every cyclist they saw riding at night w/o lights (Portland law must stipulate riders need both front and rear), gave them written warnings, and fastened lights on the spot. It was an amazing outreach program. It didn't result in any fines and hundreds of cyclists then had no excuse afterward why they weren't street legal. Pittsburgh police should do the same.

"See" v "Be Seen" is an interesting argument. I run a generator-driven light on my commuter, and my ride is exclusively in the city, though I do pass through Junction Hollow. Last year, I did the commute with a 1 watt Cateye LED, and that was sufficient for riding through the hollow, as well as being seen on the road. I do like having the generator-driven light, though I'm not sure I'm any more visible with a 3 watt light than I was with a 1 watt LED.

It's also worth noting the sort of lighting standards that exist in Europe.

Also, if you're _really_ worried about being seen and seeing, you could serious coin and get one of these.

If the police were to start ticketing, It'd be nice if it were the situation where the ticket would revert to a warning if one could show the purchase of a light within, say, 48h. (That's kinda what they do now--wink, nudge--for expired inspections for motorists).

I run a 3W halogen headlight, rear blinkie, reflective tape on hard bags, relfective sidewall tires, and a headlamp 3W halogen.

The E. Lib. HD has (or had 1 mo ago) a 3W LED designed to throw light through a wide horizontal range but a narrow vertical range, making it a great "be seen" light. $12 w/ batteries.