BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Trib article description makes me think the cyclist was 'right turned' into, as if both vehicles were traveling northbound on mt. pleasant road with cyclist in the shoulder, the semi approaches from behind and turns into the cyclist.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/breaking/s_749044.html

Sad

Shit.... that its awful

This is where it happened. Thought she may have been sidewalk riding, but there is no sidewalk.

Wow. Terrible.

I looked up the intersection too - no streetview. Looking at the intersection does not provide me with insight or comfort. Thoughts and prayers to her friends and family. Just awful.

That is awful.

BTW, they updated the article in the first link, if you read it before read it again. Still trying to process it.

From the WPXI article:

"She did have an iPod and had headphones in her ears, she also did not have a helmet while she was operating a bicycle," Limani said.

Investigators said the truck driver did use his turn signal and the crash was an accident.

"All preliminary indications point to the fact that she was negligent while she was riding her bicycle, although it's still a tragedy nonetheless," said Limani.

Police said no charges will be filed.

Before people start commenting on it:

Yes, I'm sure that a helmet would have prevented this tragedy. The police seem to have the habit of mentioning seat-belt use in accidents. I'd like to think that they've decided that helmets are the bicycle equivalent and report it even if irrelevant. But the write-up is all wrong in using this as a pretext for assigning blame.

I find it difficult to believe that the truck driver was unaware of the cyclist. Don't you look in the mirror when you turn?

I find it difficult to believe that the truck driver was unaware of the cyclist.

And vice-versa. But, since none of us were there, it's hard to know what happened.

Major suckage, regardless of fault.

The helmet thing was what initially irritated me, it's completely irrelevant... but, par for the course.

I don't want to jump to any conclusions based on one sketchy report, but if the details are as reported, I'd have a hard time placing too much blame on the truck driver.

From the investigation it sounds as though she didn't know the truck was making a right hand turn and thought she could ride past stopped traffic. This is why I cringe when I see wobbly riders filtering forward past cars with their right turn signals on.

Looking at the intersection fron satilite view, it's hard to place blame if they were both turning right without more facts.

One possibility is the truck triver swung wide left before the turn and the cyclist thought they were turning left? If the cyclist was filtering up the right side the truck driver might not have seen her? Too many unknowns. <>

helmet vs. semi? no contest.

this is part of the reason why filtering forward downright scares me. Maybe it was on tv, but I swear I have seen kids maliciously door (motor?)cyclists via passenger doors when filtering. This and passenger dooring make me very afraid of filtering. Initially I thought maybe she was salmoning in the crosswalk, but couldn't put it together right, filtering makes more sense.

Just so sad.

Eyes and ears open, everybody, please?

hmm, I have a lot I could say about riders with no helmets and headphones, too.

but part of me feels we could somehow hold the sanctity of this thread by putting that discussion elsewhere. a human died tragically.

WTF! Trib has an updated story that says she "drove into" the semi.

Post-Gazette has updated their story but refrain from stating details.

I don't want to sound stupid but what is filtering and what is dangerous about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_splitting#Filtering_forward

You really do need to be wary of filtering forward if there is the option for a driver to turn right. I see it the most from what look to be inexperienced riders, heck I probably did it myself until I learned my lesson.

I find it very easy to believe the truck driver was not aware of the bicyclist.

http://www.truckdriversnews.com/blind-spots-learn-them-and-live/

http://205.186.185.165/2006/08/bicyclists-how-to-avoid-being-hit-by-a-turning-truck.php

No doubt. The questions is, how did she not see the right turning truck?

On the news they said she was passing stopped traffic on the berm of the road and that's not legal, they also said the driver wont be charged

The bottom link in my post above has a write-up on this unfortunately common occurrence. It also has, I think, an excellent statement at the end:

Note on the responsibilities of heavy truck drivers and trucking companies:

Today in the U.S. heavy trucks have huge blind spots. With modern technology this is just ridiculous--inexpensive video cameras can solve the problem completely. Heavy trucks should not be allowed to plow people over with the excuse "I couldn't see". They need to figure out HOW to see and with today's technology, it can be done.

As with many issues with roadway safety, there are precautions to be taken by all road users. But ultimate responsibility for this situation must be taken by trucking companies to design and use trucks that allow drivers to see what they are driving over.

Don't you look in the mirror when you turn?

Most drivers don't, nor are they legally required to. That is exactly why filtering forward and riding on the sidewalk is extremely dangerous and why drivers rarely get charged when they right-hook someone.

I don't live far from this area and I would like to state that I can't think of any reason that I would want to ride through that series of intersections on that road. I don't even like to drive through that series of intersections. If she was indeed wearing an ipod and couldn't hear, I can see how she could very easily get right-turned in a truck's blind spot without realizing that it's happening. This appears to be nothing more than a very, very tragic accident that was easily preventable. I got several calls making sure that it wasn't me when the first calls came over the scanner. I feel very sorry for the victim and those close to her.

Kent Peterson has a long post from 2007 about the dangers of filtering forward and even bike lanes that put cyclists in danger of being right-hooked.

As for drivers looking in the rear-view mirror while turning, I've gotten in that habit because I've seen what cyclists do (myself included sometimes), but most people aren't expecting something to appear next to them in a single lane at an intersection.

These incidents completely and totally suck, and I echo Kent's wish to turn back time and get things in place to completely avoid them.

Anytime someone is killed it's tragic.

However, let's not as a kneejerk reaction blame the truck driver or the media or the state police here. While I agree that a helmet probably would not have made a difference here, I'm not unhappy that it was noted that she did not have one on and that she had earphones in. If it causes others to think about their safety while riding a bicycle in traffic, I'm not against it.

I feel sorry for this woman's family. They've lost a loved one needlessly. At the same time we all assume risk when we ride in traffic. When someone does so with earphones in and helment off this indicates someone who does not put safety first.

Now before I get slammed by everyone here, I'm not blaming her per se. But as with most accidents, whether at work, home, or on the road, a culture or mindset with safety in mind can often prevent accidents from happening regardless of who is at fault.

BTW, I will filter forward at times, but always stop behind the first car. My reasoning is that all the drivers I passed have then seen me, but at the same time the first car can make a right unimpeded, so I don't hold up traffic.

If the situation is found to be as it seems on the surface, I would find it hard to fault the truck driver in this case (surprise, surprise, I don't actually believe that cyclists do no wrong!).

This woman mad a bad, or, entire series of bad decisions and paid for it. People do that every second, some of them are on bikes.

To a degree, I might say she is a victim of a system where bikes are not taken seriously as vehicles, considered childrens toys, and so basic road safety on bikes is not widely distributed in the public eye. The more common solution is just to yell get off the road.

But ultimately it seems to be on her, even in the absence of some safety campaign (yeah, a helmet would not have helped, so, irrelevant. I feel bad for the people who have to clean these things up.) common sense would say "pay attention, the truck is going to win".

this is far from the first or last story i've heard of a cyclist getting killed by a large truck right-hooking them. and as is standard, the driver is not held at fault. the lesson here is: DON'T FILTER FORWARD/PASS ON THE RIGHT AT INTERSECTIONS. very easy to get run over and you will be considered to be at fault.

marv - +1

I rarely filter forward. I never feel as safe doing it as staying in line, because it isn't. The only time I do it is if I am far enough back in the line of traffic waiting at the light that I may prevent the car behind me from making the light and having to sit through the light cycle again. (Here in Butler quite a few of the major crosswalks still have an automatic pedestrian phase built into the light cycle so I can always use it if need be but the dirver behind me can't.)

If there is room and the driver has no turn signal on, I will often get in front of the first car and plan on a fast acceleration through the first half of the intersection so as to clear the right lane of the cross street for anyone making either a left turn from in front of me or right turn into it.

If the driver has his/her signal on for a right, or there is some other reason in my read of the traffic at the intersection not to do that, then I do what you do for the reason that you said.

At least that's my practice here in Butler traffic. If I were riding in the traffic in the 'Burgh with its higher traffic volumes, I would expect my decision making process might be different.

Agreed on filtering forward at intersections, but I would not call this a "right hook". To, me that term implies something that is always the motorists fault, i.e. the car passes the cyclist and then turns right, violating the cyclist's right of way. It does not appear the cyclist had the right of way in this case but instead violated the truck's right of way and unfortunately paid for it with her life.

Also Edmond comment about bike lanes, this is something that bugs me about the lanes on Beechwood, I have to deal with it every day at the intersection with Wilkins. I turn right there and I always stop for the light since it is no turn on red. I try to avoid getting stuck on the right side of cars, but there are still situations where it happens and puts me in a tough spot. And i sometimes see cyclists who obviously don't spend as much time obsessing over these details as i do, who pass stopped cars and put themselves in a position to have this kind of thing happen to them, if the light turns green at the wrong time or the car decides no turn on red doesn't apply to them.

i'd much rather it was like the wilkins lanes where the bike lane ends before the intersection and there is a distinct right turn and straight lane. Some drivers already treat it this way which I think is preferable to the alternative, although a coworker claims his wife was actually ticketed for doing so. Even better would be the arrangement I've seen in mountain view, ca where the bike lane continues but moves left so it's part of the straight lane. That seems entirely clear for all parties involved. anyways, sorry for getting a bit off topic, maybe the bike lane stuff could use another thread.

There are way too many variable in everyday traffic for me to make a blanket statement like "never/always do X, it's the safest thing".

The formula for staying alive is, always pay attention to everything around you 100% of the time, and use common sense. Corollary, don't adhere rigidly to the law if it is not the safest thing to do.

Where there is a right turn lane at a red light, and I am going straight, I will filter forward to the head of the straight-ward lane, I effectively behave as you describe, salty - "the arrangement I've seen in mountain view, ca where the bike lane continues but moves left so it's part of the straight lane". However there are still variables where I will decide not to do that. No blanket.

Of all the other accidents reported yesterday - one was a motorcycle also in Hempfield - , this one provides statements from the investigators. Good, bad?

I'm not sure about everybody else, but stories like this somehow alway make it to my suburban relatives and they use it as fodder to continue their "stop suicidally biking on the roads!" campaign. Logic, reason, and assurances fall flat comparatively. Luckily they're starting to understand that the campaign is doing me more harm than the cycling, but still. These stories scare/scar me enough all by themselves.

Send them stories about cars crashing into houses and admonish them to stop suicidally sitting on their couches. Repeat until it sinks in.

This thread makes me think there should be some kind of system we can setup where experienced riders go on a couple of rides with less experienced riders to show by example and explain what to do in real life situations. You can read information about what is and isn't safe all you want, but there are obviously situations that come up that are unique to a certain area or even route that may not be covered.

I know that I would benefit from something like this. I started commuting this April and I have learned a lot from situations that could have ended pretty badly and either just overall awareness or luck have helped me to get out of the situation that if I was more experienced I could have avoided.

I know the flock rides are a good way to get experience, but riding in a group is much different than riding solo.

I'm just kind of thinking as I type I haven't thought this through. Does anyone else think this is a good idea, or something that would be feesible?

I've heard of people doing that in other cities. Doesn't seem like a horrible idea.

I agree that there's a great deal of practical knowledge involved and the challenge is figuring out how to communicate it. I don't really have any great ideas unfortunately.

(On "filtering forward" at a light. I will do it on occasion, but I will always make a point of stopping way in front of the cars, to make sure that they see that I'm there.)

Unless she was blind, I'm not sure what difference having or not having headphones would have made. We have no knowledge of this ladies' train of thought so to say she "didn't make safety a priority" based on the fact that she didn't wear a helmet and was listening to music seems a bit premature. Maybe she was unaware of the danger she was potentially in. (Which in this case, I don't think would have affected the outcome)

My guess is she was riding alongside a moving truck, which may or may not have had its turn signals on. It probably did turn left to swing out before going back right.

Meanwhile, she kept moving forward and the truck driver didn't see her and isn't used to checking his right mirror on the berm anyways. The trailer came across and hit her.

For those seeking advice, be extremely cautious passing busses and trailers for reasons already stated. They're big, make wide turns, and may not see you or be looking for you. It's usually best to just wait behind them. Don't ride along spots in places where they can pin you.

The report said she had passed several cars that had stop because the truck was turning and the truck was already starting to turn when she got to the intersection. She must of been in a zone and just didn't see it.

helmet is irrelevant, but headphones... obviously we can't say in this particular case whether it might have made a difference or not. in general, it definitely decreases your awareness of your surroundings and in PA it is also illegal.

Headphones surely don't help ones awareness.

My in-laws mentioned this accident to me and asked me if I ride with headphones.

It's sad to read about this tragedy, regardless of who was at fault. A similar situation almost cost me my life early this year. There is a sharp right hand turn on Route 51 north, going out of downtown McKees Rocks and toward the McKees Rocks bridge. I foolishly filtered forward without considering what would happen if the semi sitting at the light turned right. It did and my space got really small really fast. A few quick kicks saved me from being crushed against the wall or under the truck. Had I been hit, it would have been 100% my fault. Hopefully we can learn or be reminded of something from this tragedy.

I'm hesitant to get too preachy on this tragic thread, but it might keep somebody alive, so..

Another rule of staying alive, once you learn to be aware of all the other traffic around you, 360 degrees, the next step is to mentally construct all their possible actions, and how their actions will affect you. And if an action of theirs can affect you, how will you respond? This applies no matter what kind of vehicle you are in/on. It's a chess game, your brain should constantly be working through scenarios. On a bike especially, if you are ever just riding along thinking about dinner or bills, you are a potential news item.

Last, 2 little things I learned from Motorcycle Safety classes,

IGNORE OTHER VEHICLES TURN SIGNALS! I suppose I should tone that down a bit and say don't rely for your life on other peoples turn signals. They may or may not actually indicate what the vehicle will do. Cannot be relied upon.

Assume they don't see you, and if you think they see you, assume they might hit you anyway. Act accordingly.

Stay alive.

Since Edmonds mentioned the motorcycle safety course, I will also echo how useful it really is. Having ridden dirt bikes and motorcycles all of my life, the safety course is very valuable. I was expecting lots of fluff and material added with little value but this is a rare instance where something good came out of some state office. It is FREE with a valid DL and motorcycle permit. This is not to say you will become an amazing rider, but the people that run the PAMSP classes are local riders with lots of experience that they can pass along. A little insight into their world won't hurt if you can afford the time commitment. You would also get your motorcycle license out of it.

What Edmonds said. The older I get, the more paranoid I act when on the road (again, regardless of mode). Trust no one!

+1 @Edmonds and bjanaszek

I must add that I don't make those statements to scare anyone, quite the contrary. When you play this chess game, observe, formulate, anticipate, and prepare, when other vehicles do stupid moves, you can just say Ha! I knew they were going to do that! The (dangerous) surprises go way down, safety and enjoyment go way up.

A side benefit ist that I (almost) never get pissed off at anyone in traffic, because I am already expecting the other vehicle to do the stupidest possible move. For some reason the human brain seems to get most upset when it is faced with the unexpected.

And by expecting the worst your brain is not startled and you can better respond to what is now minor relative to what you had been prepared for.

edmonds inspired me to start a new thread, I'd like people to continue to post in that direction, but also maybe keep this one... more focused than we usually do (which is probably my fault).

I remember when I first discovered BPGH, and the rides, and initially I was elated, very quickly followed by a teensy bit of dissappointment (a very teensy bit). I was hoping people would correct the crap out of me and my riding on group rides... Never happened, not even once. On-board advice has thus been my mainstay aside from the... "practicum" of riding where-ever. And, sadly, often the best advice happens on threads about injured or killed cyclists, and I'm just about to the point that I won't click on those anymore.