William Miller from Port Authority told me at the ACTC meeting tonight that they will be installing 37 more bike racks on buses this summer. The first to be done are the 35-footers, followed by the 40-footers. Expect to start seeing them around August.
He also said the big 45-foot buses will eventually get racks, too. However, they're only getting 55 new buses next year, not the 85 they'd planned on. That decision is a casualty of cuts in the capital budget.
He quoted exact numbers of buses with and w/o racks, but I didn't write them down. When they're done with this round, though, it'll be something like 600 of 800, with racks. Eventually they all will.
Cool - any idea which routes?
I actually have that question in general. I know there is that list of 12 routes guaranteed to have racks, is it a complete crapshoot on other routes?
I'd be extremely happy if the 26E had racks, FWIW.
With that many racks we should be able to at least double the amount of routes expected to have racks.
good news though. if they only need 200 more racks, that's the equivalent of ~$200,000 installed. Less than the price of one new bus.
I've never put much stock in the route-by-route guarantee. Any given bus starting the day as a 26E (Collier garage) might be running a 51A or a 100 after lunch, so improving the pool is the real solution.
It's a good-news bad-news story. Sounded to me like they're getting a bit of funding here, a bit there, to install what they can. So while we're getting 30 fewer buses in FY2010 (theoretically replacing only 55 buses w/o racks with 55 that do), we *are* getting 37 older buses retrofitted with racks in the next couple of months.
It all started with my telling Mr. Miller that the 35-footers were the least likely of any bus type to have racks, and I was hoping we wouldn't have to wait until their retirement in 2014ish to rectify that situation.
I completely agree with you Stu that the answer is more racks, BUT the PAAC is able to keep racks on those 12 routes pretty well which means they could add routes to it and do the same decent job keeping them on those routes.
To put more bike racks on buses sends the wrong message!! To solve the problem is to build more trails, or make roads more accessible and bike friendly for cyclists.I'm a cyclist who is very frustrated that I risk my life cycling from within Pittsburgh to the South Hills,(or suburbs to the east,north or west.)We still have a long way to go, and consider the area terrible,unless you live in Pittsburgh and just cycle within the city.
I disagree. It sends the completely RIGHT message — that transportation is not an "either or" choice. Folks who live two miles away from a busway stop currently unwilling to walk that far could easily combine modes. There are times especially in rainy/snowy/icy months that I would use transit a lot more with my bike if I could depend on it. More bike racks will ultimately get more people riding our streets which will ultimately make our streets safer. Concurrently we're looking to mark and sign the entire routing system in Pittsburgh. It's all part of the same system. Look at the most bike friendly cities in the country/world. You'll see bikes seamlessly integrated with transit.
the wrong message? i think bike access on transit is a way to make the city more accessible and bike friendly for cyclists. sometimes that hill is just too big (mt washington), the stretch too long, or the snow a bit too deep to ride in.
any city that is bike friendly also has bicycle friendly transit. for many people, cycling is just one piece of getting around.
THE WRONG MESSAGE!!! I personally know people,(including cyclists), who now tell me they don't need trails or accesible bike friendly roads if all the busses have racks.
are they just carrying their bikes on the bus for fun? where are they bringing their bike to? are they commuting or rec riding?
P.S. It also defeats the purpose of exercise to travel with your bike on a bus when you can have access cycling to your destination.
Quit trolling Lenny. You are not making any sense.
This thread just stopped making sense
It's strange that 1. Lenny's hearing from cyclists that they wouldn't use trails and bike lanes if more buses had racks when we at BikePGH have heard the opposite 2. exercise is referenced in this thread. This is about transportation. And who knows, maybe more people will explore parks outside their neighborhoods if they can easily get there by transit. Remember, Pittsburgh has very low auto ownership.
More options = good.
Lenny is missing a significant point, that certain trips require combining bike and bus. Six different times I've blogged about trips started on bike, but needed a bus to get the rest of the way there, or home, for one reason or another (1 2 3 4 5 6).
My point is that the bus system becomes much more usable when a bike is employed, and that the feasibility of using a bicycle as basic transportation is greatly enhanced by employing a bus to do some of the work.
In reply to Scott,I'm hearing from the cyclists who just ride a few miles in their own neighborhood parks, or street from where they live.I know for myself I would love to cycle to work in the South Hills.Maybe you're right?? Let's not build more trails or bike friendly roads from the city to the burbs and put our bikes on bus racks to get there instead.
Tell ya what; why don't we put racks on the buses that we can use now, while we work to build more trails and bike-friendly roads in the long term? This isn't an either-or situation, ya know?
Lenny what is stopping you from riding to the South Hills now?
Hi Eric.I've cycled a couple times to the South Hills but encountered very bad,dangerous road conditions, especially around Carson Street and the west end circle. I literally felt like I was risking my life.I will wait until they they build the Allegheny Linear Trail or somehow make the roads much safer. I'm in my early 50's, and hopefully I will live to see it. I say this as no joke!!
Lenny,
You may wish to try a route such as Jail Trail to Second Ave/885 to Glenwood Bridge to Streets Run Rd, which will take you up to Banksville and all sorts of possibilities.
the port authority doesn't build trails or bike lanes. the city builds trails and bike lanes, but doesn't manage a bus system. therefore, encouraging PAT to accept more bikes more often doesn't mean that their resources are being diverted away from trail building, or vice versa.
Thanks Reddan for this new route to South Hills.I will attempt to cycle it sometime next week and see if it's safer.
I sometimes go up 18th and sometimes go over Arlington to get to different parts of the South Hills. Painful, but relatively safe compared with West End.
I have some attitudes that are similar to Lenny's. Many of us, maybe even most of us, do.
I came to be biker because I've always felt taht the car culture was just wrong. I used to motly ride buses and walk, but biking is easier and more reliable.
When someone says something like "I want to start biking more, so I'm going to get a car rack," I cringe. "I'm gonna get a rack on my bike, so I can carry my car."
I dislike the "I'm on a bike, I have to show other bikers I can drop them" attitude. I dislike lycra.
Although I like nice gear and it's hard to draw the line, I don't like gear fetishism. "$9,500 bike? Something wrong with your peter?"
I've been known to be impolitic about any of these - sometimes several at once.
I've only used a bike rack once - busted bike, long walk home. I support them, though.
Mick
I've used the 16A to get to Ambridge, (Ambridge Bike Shop) which is supposed to be one of those routes that always have bike racks. The last two times I went up there on the way back I had to wait an additional hour because a 16A bus didn't have a bike rack.
I used to take the 56C to West Mifflin, but after several times of waiting an hour or more for a bus to show up with a bike rack, I just started riding out there because it takes me less than an hour to get out there.
If buses without racks leave the garage on a route that's supposed to have them, that's a fault of the dispatcher on duty.
This is a fixable problem. Record every instance on routes that are supposed to have racks. Bus number, route number, date/time, direction, and intersection. Use the online form.
Squeaky wheels get fixed, or are more likely to. No squeak, no fix.
Lenny, why is it "either/or" with this? we're working both on butting in bike lanes and trails AND getting racks on buses. Why are you trying to bait us into an argument?
That's fine with me Scott.As long as your putting just as much if not more effort for bike lanes and trails I'm OK with it.I just have a feeling some people involved with improving the roads and extending
PS. People involved extending the trails will become complacent.The excuse will be to take a Pat bus to other trails.
Lenny, you're the only one who sees this as some sort of competition between the two things. Just because you want to ride the whole way and not take the bus at all doesn't mean everyone feels the same way. My primary aim is using my car less, and the more options I have the less likely I am to say "screw it, I'll just drive."
I think people are more likely to commute by bike if they know they can catch a bus if it starts raining or they just don't feel like riding the whole way.
Lenny, This is a great time to put your thoughts to work in a really productive way. Transportation, and particularly transportation funding, will undergo SIGNIFICANT changes in the coming months as we move towards a new Transportation Bill. (That's what tells the states and the Feds what they CAN and what they HAVE TO spend money on.) Right now, there's not enough money to do much of anything, and certainly not enough money for trail extensions or new trail development. There are links throughout this message board, and the BP home page that will tell you how to reach out to your legislators, and national advocacy groups. Take 2 minutes to send them all an email, telling them how you feel. It doesn't have to be fancy. It doesn't have to be long. Just let them know that you ride, and that you would like to see the City (and others) have the resources they need to make bicycle commuting a viable option for people living in the South Hills (or wherever) of Pittsburgh. Let them know that you've tried several alternate routes. Let them know that the West End Circle remains intimidating (or worse) for a cyclist. Let them know that the Port Authority's racks on buses system is an incomplete solution. Let them know that you are not a college student -- we want them to know that not ALL of us put our bicycles away for good when we turn 16, or graduate from college. The legislative discussions are going on NOW and will affect what happens relative to federal funding for cycling for the next 6 years or so. Let them hear your voice NOW. Today is good. Tomorrow is ok. Next week or next month may be too late.
jadp: I go between Forest Hills and Craig St, and would appreciate the option to occasionally put my bike on the bus. My ride takes me on a lot of narrow, poorly lit streets and having the option of busing home after riding in would be pretty useful.
Top! Last night after Critical Mass, I rolled by PAAC's Main Shop in Manchester, and found this set of six rackless buses side by side.
I took these two close-ups of 35-footer #1542. Here's the front:
...and here is a shot of the inside, with the rack on the floor:
So, this means either they are installing a rack on this bus, which is good news, or they are getting ready to scrap the bus but rescuing the rack, which is also good news. I presume the former; the bus looks like it's in pretty good shape.
I cannot remember seeing six rackless buses side by side like this anytime recently, except on the Greyhound-shaped 1900s.
In my opinion all aspects of bike travel can use some improvement, But I feel PAT is the farthest behind. I use the incline on a daily basis and most of the times its fine but depending on the operator I might be told that only one bike can get on and I have been treated very rudely a few times. When it comes to the T, well lets just say I avoid it at all costs. I have been told I could not take my bike on for no reason at all. Wasent rush hour and the train was only half full. To be compleatly honest it was the same operator that gave me a hard time on the incline as the T. He and I have had numerous run ins and now it seems if he sees me getting on the incline he always has something to say. I have even called PAT and reported him in the past but they never returned any of my calls.
On the plus side, I've seen more bikes going around on buses lately (71s, 500).
yeah, i feel like i've seen a ton recently. especially on the days that started out nice, then ended in a downpour
I've been walking around with a little notepad, getting the numbers of every bus without a rack. There's a pattern: Most of the buses newer than 7 years old have racks, like 90%. The oldest buses, the red-white-black ones, now 13 years old, maybe half of them. Works out to about 3 in 4, all told.
It's getting better, slowly. Let me know if you see 1542 show up with a rack!
Stu, do you work for PAT, or are you just a serious transit geek?
Serious transit geek is quite accurate.
Never worked FOR them but worked WITH them. More to the point, I'm with the Allegheny County Transit Council, the officially sanctioned citizens' advisory panel, representing transit riders. This puts me in direct contact with top brass and many managers and staff.
I think PAT really does have a lot of it right, but they can't do a good job in a vacuum. That's where we as transit riders, and we as bike riders, come into the picture.
Time to top this thread again, as I have some new (May 4 2010) info. This is a direct quote from an email:
Out of our 824 buses (STVs not included), 579 currently have bike racks on them, 245 do not. We do not have a definite date for completion on the remaining buses. The STVs are not able to handle bike racks due to the design of the bus.
The 20 hybrids that we have received have bike racks. Two additional hybrids are due in July and will have bike racks installed before going into service.
We are anticipating award for 53 additional buses at the June Board meeting - 28 40-foot buses and 25 articulated buses. All will include bike racks before going into service.
What I did not specifically ask about was retrofitting existing buses with racks. But the 25 artics means a lot more EBAs, 71Ds and 61Cs with racks.
What is an STV?
70% is decent, but we need to get as close to 100% as possible. Will the 53 new buses replace 53 old buses or just add to the overall number? Replacing old non-rack buses with the new we can bring up the total percent covered to 77%. Just adding 53 buses to the fleet w/o taking the others offline we raise it only 1% to 71%.
I have a meeting tomorrow with the Port Authority. Hopefully we'll figure out a short term solution to get this taken care of once and for all. My estimates say it would only cost $200,000 to complete the fleet. 2/3 of the price of one new bus.
I have started using the racks on the EBA when I need to get home faster or I don't feel like riding in the weather. The only reason I do it is because I am now fairly confident that every EBA will have a rack and if one doesn't another is 10 minutes behind it.
i guess i have just had good luck but thus far I have not been passed by a bus without a rack when in need
As i was walking from work to my bike locker yesterday, I saw a bus rolling down 5th Ave with TWO bikes on the rack. It made me smile.
I still think that with the long-distance coverage of the suburban buses and the the hill climbing ease of buses relative to bikes makes the advantages of completing the fleet of buses with bike racks impossible to overstate. Not to mention it makes absolutely miserable days like we had just today seem more passable on a bike.
I would also ask what is an STV? I would imagine we're talking about the shuttle-sized buses, but I just want to be sure.
STV means Shuttle Transit Vehicle, a shuttle-sized minibus, numbered 85XX or 86XX. PAT's Wikipedia article says they had 80 of these in revenue service as of October 2008.
Scott's right, the fastest way to complete the fleet is to get 150 or so racks and retrofit all the buses they plan on keeping more than, say, two years.
The problem lies in the money sources. It typically comes from odd places like CMAQ grants (Congestion Mitigation and Air Quality, a federal program). They can't just go out and buy 150 racks, unfortunately.
My secondary worry is that they will start to retire buses that have racks before they get the newer ones retrofitted. A lot of those 14-year-old 2600s have racks, maybe 1/3 of them.
They can't recycle racks?
@dwillen: From what I've perceived is that not all the bike racks were created equal. That is to say, there are variances in the bike rack design to allow different models of buses to use them. So if one of those older buses with a rack is retired, I'm not sure the rack on it could be removed and reused on a newer model.
Quick note: Port Authority does recycle racks from buses taken out of service and puts them on buses that are still in service but lack racks.
"The problem lies in the money sources."
well, if PAT's ever holding a bake sale to buy more bike racks, I'll bring some cookies.
@Impala26 right on. Pittsburgh is a poster child for multimodal use cases. Weather, hills, you name it.
Good news! I have a reliable report of a 45-foot coach bus, #1926, with a bike rack. It runs out of Harmar Division, and this morning (7/15/10) was on a 68A.
I do not yet know if this is a test installation or the beginning of a trend, but IT EXISTS!
in response to Lenny, I just wanted to say that I feel as though it's impossible to ride from East Carson st to the top of Arlington Ave (which is where I live). My bike is old, and bottom bracket is weak enough to break on a hill like that. I love having the option of taking the bus the rest of the way. Even taking the bus once a day, I still ride about 6-10 miles each day, rain/snow/shine, taking both main roadways and trails.
And I think that this is great news, though. I can't tell you how many times I've seen 3 busses in a row go by without racks, sometimes in terrible weather. For example, the night of the big snowstorm in february, I got out of class, and decided it was too dangerous to ride home, so I waited for the bus. The driver announced that he was the last one for an hour, didn't have a rack, but he still let me roll my bike on, even though his supervisor probably would have had a fit. That was lucky for me, but it will probably never happen again.
Great news Stu! Someone needs to get a pic of this.
Update, it might be #1928. But really, I thought the 1900s would be the last ones done.
They just got the two new hybrids they had on order, #5721 and #5722. One was seen on an EBA yesterday. Can someone verify if these have racks? They're supposed to.
I saw in some non-bike-related story the other day that PNC donated $230K to some good cause. Which got me to thinking, I wonder if we could get some local corporation or foundation or business or set of businesses to scrounge together the $200K-ish it is going to take to get PAT the racks it needs to Complete The Fleet.
As I understand it, each rack is somewhere around $1,000.
I'm thinking, heck, even if some of the bike shops (REI, Trek, etc.) could come up with $25K, that would make a difference. Do we really need to find a single source for that money? There's maybe 15 artics (that they're not junking in a year) that need a rack. Someone get them. There's maybe 15 of the 5400s and newer that need a rack. Someone else get them. Maybe 5 of the 35-footers need one yet. That's gotta be someone's chump change.
How hard can this be, really?
I totally agree with you Stu. Maybe this is something Bike Pgh can (begin to) organize?
We're already working with the city and the Port Authority to figure this out. First we need to find out whether or not CMAQ projects can be rearranged in the queue. Barring that, we can go down the sponsorship or foundation road.
Will we have Miller Lite Bike Racks on buses? Ride responsibly (don't drink Miller Lite).
Maybe instead of those crazy wrap graphics on the buses that someone paid for, we might have gotten some useful racks.
Remaining buses to get bike racks
Port Authority expects to have all of its buses equipped with bike racks by summer.
A committee of the authority board today approved the $147,560 purchase of about 120 racks, which will be installed on the fronts of buses by June or July.
About 580 buses are equipped with racks at present.
that is awesome. I can't wait for the day that people start complaining that these racks only hold two bikes each, because they have to wait for another bus with an empty spot.
It has happened that my son and I arrived independently at the same bus stop for the same bus, each with a bicycle. I guess the perfect storm would be for three people in a family to arrive at one bus stop, each with a bike.
here's a cute streetfilms on the case for bike racks on buses in NYC.
There's a shot of a Pittsburgh bus with a bike on it.
That's crazy that NYC has no bike racks on their busses. Love the shot of the gull at the end. 
yeah, crazy, huh? i wonder where they're at in the list of the naysayer's reasons (excuses) as to why they can't have them.
when we were pushing for 100% we got:
-it slows loading time too much
-buses can't make the tight turns
-they don't fit on the buses
-people's bikes will get stolen
-people will leave their bikes on the bus
-too much liability
i know i'm forgetting some
that post was really cynical. i should mention that the current port authority has been really great working on this.
I don't know about most people, but I'e had drivers compliment me on how quickly I load/unload my bike onto the racks. They're easy enough to use that after once or twice, anyone can use them pretty quickly.
Naysayers should ride with one of us veterans sometime. I know I can both load and unload the bike in about 10 seconds, about comparable to one person paying fare at the farebox.
I've only used the racks once. I was somewhat confused at first, but managed to get my bike loaded fairly quickly. Athough I'm not sure I had the hold-down bar done correctly. Which leads me to ask - is there a rack someplace that a cyclist could practice loading? This might be a good activity for car free friday, or pedal pittsburgh?
A practice rack is a great idea. I found the online video helpful before trying it for the first time. I've had excellent interactions will all the drivers so far (they've even "kneeled" the bus for me a few times). One exception: a super rainy winter day when the buses were over stuffed and finally one came by with an empty rack and the guy wouldn't let me on. He was having a crappy day, as were all the other sardines in his can. The bikes flop around a wee bit, which can be disconcerting.
They had a practice rack in Oakland at BTWD 2009... but I don't know if/where that thing can be accessed on a more regular basis.
they've had "practice buses" at many events.
If you can locate a bus laying over somewhere, most drivers (who aren't having a bad day) will let you practice a bit. My picture was taken during just such a layover, a 12A on a Saturday afternoon out at Showcase Cinema in McCandless. West View Plaza would be another good place to find sitting buses. For a close-in spot, the 54C lays over by the Aviary. The Zoo used to be a good spot to find a sitting bus, too, also Bunkerhill by the top of Negley.
I would not try someplace that's off limits to the public, like a bus garage or that layover area by the East Busway at Wilkinsburg, or South Hills Jct.
I know I can both load and unload the bike in about 10 seconds, about comparable to one person paying fare at the farebox.
Or if you compare it to the people who are startled and surprised that they are suddenly at their stop and so must dig deep in their pockets or purses to find their money or pass, way less time.
I don't have it all official, but I do have first-hand reports that the buses I least expected to be equipped with racks, have racks. Those would be the even-numbered 2600/2700-series, which are next to be retired, and which lacked a rack as recently as two weeks ago.
I think we are at 100%!
You might see an occasional bus without one, but it will be rare.
I saw a newer giant motor coach bus today with a rack on it. Looked like you had to lift your bike about 5 feet in the air to get it up there though. Perhaps the vertical position was just an illusion since I'm used to seeing it on the other busses.
@dwillen: Yes, those are very high. I chuckled a bit the first time I encountered those racks. It's doable at my height (6 foot), but I had to help a shorter lady lift hers on one once.
