BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Also, according to our informal poll on the front of the site, 46% of respondents don't know what a bike share program is, so here in a nutshell:

Bike Sharing has been sweeping cities around the world by storm. Basically, there are Bike Share stations scattered around a given area, and you can simply walk up, swipe your card, and ride the bike for as long as you need. You can then return the bike to that station, or any other station in the network.

Downtown workers: think how your current lunch range can expand from a 2 block radius to a 10 block radius in the same amount of time.

Some images:

They're calling it "Bike Sharing" but it's really automated bike rental, nu? Not that that's a bad thing, just saying.

I hope to stop by.

Bike Share (as a noun) makes sense, "A part or portion of a larger amount that is divided among a number of people, or to which a number of people contribute"

Bike Sharing (as a verb) also makes sense, but in a slightly different way, "Use, occupy, or enjoy (something) jointly with another or others"

I don't see sharing excluding the possibility of money changing hands, is that what you are suggesting Lyle?

I'm excited! Our whole office (all of 3 people) is going to come down.

hrmph this, erok! http://bike-pgh.org/bbpress/topic/announcing-bike-sharing-demo-in-market-sq-on-june-9th#post-73085

blah blah.

well i think the concept of "car sharing" came first, which is almost the same thing, but you need to bring the car back to the same spot.

I do like that you can take the bikes one-way. I can definitely imagine using something like this when I want to go the Strip for lunch and don't want to pull my car out of the parking garage and pay double the daily parking fee.

FWIW, I don't think that Zipcar and Flexcar really count as "sharing" either. It's about the connotation, not the denotation.

check out the article by Brian O'Neill in today's PG: http://post-gazette.com/pg/11160/1152419-155-0.stm?cmpid=bcpanel1

Very cool. Just checked it out with Bikeygirl. Thanks for bringing this to Pittsburgh.

Ditto!!!

I do hope the City and Businesses get behind this! It would really increase ridership and sustainability in our fair city!!

And yes, you can ride those bikes in a skirt AND with platform high-heel shoes!!

wish i could have made it down - thursday is supposed to be "no meeting day" but it doesn't always work out that way... hope you got a good turnout.

super bummed I couldn't make it. bathroom was occupied for what seemed like ages this morning so I opted to work from home.

I stopped by, I thought it was pretty cool. I tried the bike, and liked it, except for the brakes. I liked having built in generator powered lights, Massive kick stand, built in lock etc. I thought the brakes were just barely passable.

Any one else try the bikes?

I rode one. I didn't notice anything about the brakes, but I also didn't ride very far or very fast (it was HOT, and I was wearing dress clothes). Could also be that you just got one with bad brakes. Overall, I thought it was comfortable and easy to ride, and the 3 speed internal hub shifted a lot more smoothly than my ancient shimano 3 speed. I would also say, though, that the bike was really heavy, which is fine on the flats, but I wouldn't want to ride it up an hills.

I didn't have a problem with my brakes, but snakeguy complained about his.

They seemed well suited for trips that are probably walkable, but you'd like to get there slightly faster than walking the whole way -- but not during rush hour, when you might just as well walk.

For instance, I used one to zip back from Market Square to my office to get some papers and return -- about four blocks each way. It was good for that. But I was really tempted to do things I would never do on my road bike, like ride on sidewalks and the wrong way up one-way streets. I'm not sure why.

I liked it. Very solid, seemed like something a newbie or occasional rider would find very reassuring. But it still rode well enough that you could take one out for fun if you wanted to, do a little Jail Trail at lunch or something. A nooner.

Very good riding position.

I did find that the brakes were a bit soft, that's my only negative, but when I had to panic stop to not smack addled pedestrians, they stopped.

I thought the gearing was excellent for a 3 speed, the low was low enough that someone could definitely do the ride from town to Oakland.

A 4 year old kid told me "nice bike", so there's a point.

For it's intended purpose, I give it a 9 out of 10.

edit; red

I rode just a little around Market Square and it was fine. The bike does feel heavy, but you get used to it after a bit. I didn't like how soft the breaks were either -they made me feel insecure. Maybe the actual bike was off and that is why?? (I rode the red bike).

I did not ride the red bike, so perhaps that's it. Also, I personally don't like the riding position, but that might be just because it's so unusual for me. So I'm withholding judgement on that point.

Lyle doesn't like something!

It's just pros and cons. Most of the time I'll have my own bike with me, so I'm not really the target user, and I recognize that.

This would be great for when my bike is in the shop - ride near my house to drop off a bike, walk the rest of the way home.

Wish I could've made it, I've been working like crazy lately and didn't have time for a break today.

I tried one, didn't notice which one. The brakes seemed solid enough. I didn't care as much for the gear ratio, esp since I'm on a 3-speed IGH fairly often. I liked the shifter and the gear indicator.

It seemed heavy. I got used to it, but as someone who's usually on a 30# bike, the sheer mass seemed un-ideal.

I took a fairly long test ride, Forbes to Stanwix to Liberty to 9th to Penn to 5th to Liberty to Stanwix to 4th & back around through MktSq. It's geared fairly low, but I suspect the target audience isn't someone who'd tackle Federal St on a 3-speed.

I tried chaining it to a lightpost; it worked. I didn't try putting it on a bus.

They do attract attention. One pedestrian stopped me and wondered where I got the bike, so I told him. How often does that happen?

They do come in a 7-speed version which would be better for the burgh.

Stu raises a good point. I'd like to see something like this combined with transit hubs - for instance, a bunch of bikes at the EL busway stop would open up the entire burgeoning EL / EastSide / Bk Sq retail area to transit users. (and I actually might use them for this purpose). If only it weren't so challenging to bike around for the inexperienced folk.

I wish I could've been down there to check these out. Like Lyle, I'm wondering where people think the stations would be for one-way trips. For just downtown, maybe market square, the strip, station square, and southside works? maybe consol too? north shore?

Good work as always, BikePGH!

Did yinz try the coiled-lock-coffee-cup-holder?

The bikes are heavy partly because they need to be overbuilt to be vandal-proof and very durable. But yeah, 7 speeds seems a minimum for around here.

Hopefully there can be enough hubs installed to make it viable right away.

I wrote a web article with some more background: http://www.bicycletimesmag.com/content/urban-presscamp-part-2

One pertinent factoid from B-Cycle: "A bike sharing system that consists of 500 bikes distributed through 50 stations sounds like a lot at first, at $3,500 to $5,000 per bike, typically equals the cost of just ONE city bus." (The PG quoted $6K per bike, not sure where the discrepancy lies...)

North shore, for sure.

Station Square, but I would want it to be within stones throw of the S.S. T station.

Downtown, by the Stanwix T station, high visibility.

edmonds59, since I never use the subway or T, I didn't think of that. But it would make total sense to put stations where T stops are (including the new north shore line once that ever opens).

One pertinent factoid from B-Cycle: "A bike sharing system that consists of 500 bikes distributed through 50 stations sounds like a lot at first, at $3,500 to $5,000 per bike, typically equals the cost of just ONE city bus."

Wow! Busses must cost a heck of a lot more than I thought they did!

Actually, looking up bus costs now... they seem to run around $500,000. Maybe they meant to factor in operating costs as well.

Station Square is an interesting idea -- the connection from transit to (eg) the Grandview Saloon has a big gap in it. Being able to easily get from Station Square to the bottom of the Duquesne Incline would be a big win.

A half-mill is a ballpark figure for a bus. The 60-foot artics will cost more, a 40-footer a bit less. What's a Rolls-Royce run these days, maybe north of $200K?

Maybe a better comparison is a new traffic light. Those are usually well into six digits, too, exclusive of traffic and engineering studies, and the electricity to run them.

I don't have recent figures handy, but in 2004 the total cost per hour to run a bus was about $100. This does not vary much between large vs. small, full vs. empty.

The North Shore Extension should be open in March 2012.

Placing a B-Cycle station near transit stops would be ideal.

Emailed the B-Cycle dude to get better explanation. Good to be prepared against "but it's so expensive!" arguments.

So he was going more on $750K for a regular diesel bus, $1 - 1.5 mil for a hybrid, figures gleaned from a NY Times article. (Link hopefully forthcoming.) Bus costs are seemingly hard to find. But I was wrong about the level of comparison – the $750 figure is more comparable with a smaller system, say just over a hundred bikes.

I rode a blue bike and Mary Lynn rode a red bike. We both thought the brakes were a bit soft (an observation not a complaint "Lyle") We took a short ride to PSP and headed up the ramp of the Ft. Duquesne Bridge to get a feel for riding on an incline. Bridges are usually the only places when riding on the Three Rivers Heritage Trail that you may experience a sloped route.

I thought the bikes are what they are. Reminded me of a beach cruiser. I missed my mirror but I could carry on of those Velcro strap-on mirrors easily enough.

I had a good conversation with Jason McDowell from B-Cycle, LLC. He mentioned that he does not recommend stations being more than five blocks apart. I also recommended that because the brakes are soft in some cases that maybe a heads up to the riders. Maybe just a mention that the brakes may be softer than one expects and to give them a try before actually needing to use them. Not an issue for a seasoned rider as myself but I’ve led enough bike tours to know that not everyone is comfortable on a bicycle.

Oh, I like that wording. Hey Scott! I don't complain, I just "observe" a lot.

Beach cruiser sums it up pretty well.

snakeguy, what kind of brakes are on your regular ride? Do you have a disc?

Observe, rinse and repeat...

My regular comfort bike has cantilever braking. My regular Mt. bike has disc braking. My regular road bike has cantilever brakes. None of my bikes have drum brakes.

And yes they were soft. Any yes that's what she said.

Drum brakes are a bit different than others, no doubt, and take a little getting used to. one advantage that they do have is that there is no loss in stopping when it's wet or snowy out.

I like the decision to use drum brakes, stone reliable, almost 0 maintenance.

On a related subject, it seems as though the renovation of Market Square is just an out-of-the-park home run, no? I was skeptical, but I haven't been through there since it's been finished that it hasn't had some activity.

I think Pittsburgh would make for an interesting test of bike sharing because of the segregated geography of the neighborhoods.

Could you imagine having bike sharing without having spots at South Side Works? Or by the stadiums? Or in the Strip? The distance covered there is already greater than most other cities.

I think it would take a lot of strategic planning on where to put the kiosks. I did notice that by far most of the cities where it is available are pretty flat....

one of the things that i learned at the seminar the next day was how some cities are dealing with hills. for instance, in paris, they give incentives for getting up hills. like you get a free ride if you take it to the top of a hill, no matter how long it takes you. or giving people riding credit for taking it to the top.

... because otherwise you end up with an accumulation of excess bikes at the bottom of hills, and too few at the tops.

exactly. a big part of running this is balancing the system, and they may have to actually pick bikes up and move them. they did say that once it's established, "balancing the system" becomes very predictable. people tend to move one direction in the morning and another direction in the eve. the thing that mucks it up is when there is a large event or sports games, so having stations at the stadiums will require some very careful forethought

In Paris they also have trucks that haul around bikes in the middle of the night. Little silly to burn dinosaurs to get bikes back up the hills though, so giving credit incentives for rides up a hill sounds pretty cool. Nice replacement for a gym too, ride bike up the hill, rollerblade back down, repeat.

also, one of the things i like about the b-cycle stations is how modular they are. no need to pour concrete, and very little need to run electricity. so if a station is in a bad spot, it can easily be moved. i imagine it would take a few months to fine tune where the stations will be.

The thing about bikes moving in one direction in the morning and the other in the evening is that if you don't have some process for moving bikes back upstream, each bike only gets used twice a day.

With the right kind of incentives (eg, negative pricing for upstream travel), and the right kind of trailer, and good software support, I bet some people could be motivated to freelance as bike movers. What better training than hauling four of those bikes up Mt Washington?

...each bike only gets used twice a day.

i don't know if this is necessarily true. i did say "tend to." it doesn't mean that the bikes don't still get used for say a lunch break or errand where people will pick it up and return to the same spot.

also, they said that most of the bike moving was preventative and not responding to empty/full racks- ie they knew it would happen. so they make sure that certain stations were stocked (or near empty) in the morning, and be prepared for special events.

Jason was the "dude" I've been talking to... and a good dude at that.

B-Cycle has a good bit of flexibility built in to deal with dispersal, and nifty GPS tracking features to collect data to adjust things, short and long term. They also can set up temporary stations with just a staffer and a laptop for such things as sporting events. That could make getting to games a lot easier/more fun for people that don't want to commit to riding all the way from home – park in an outlying area near a bike station and ride in.

Can't you just see fleets of bikes coming in for a game and docking at the stadiums. I think that would be pretty cool.

"tend to" - okay, sure there would be more uses than just twice per day per bike, and you would want most of the bikes to be where most of the users are most of the time.

The Economist has had a few articles and some commenters chiming in about their experiences in London which I found interesting.

Also, the DC program has a nifty stats interface at: http://cabidashboard.ddot.dc.gov/

It says they had 95K trips in April with 860 bikes in service. So that's about 110 trips per month per bike or almost 4 / day. That seems like decent utilization, though I think profitability would hinge on how many paid hours / day that worked out to.

(They also had 3 crashed, 12 vandalized, 250 damaged due to "normal wear" which I presume means stuff like tires, and 31 "unknown cause". I'm really interested in their crash statistics. 3 damage-crashes / 95K trips is pretty good, given the things I saw in DC. )

serious. looks like DC has a higher ridership than Denver, but the Denver guy claimed one crash and 3 flat tires in the year that it's been there (500 bikes i think).

Pretty good odds. I bet there's been more crashes by people with funny hats on segways

someone broke their leg on a segway at seven springs a few weeks ago...

were they downhilling on it?

Any info on how often someone takes one of these on a transit bus? On my test, I didn't try it. I wonder if that big basket would be a visibility problem for bus drivers, or at least enough to irritate them.

I've never heard of anyone taking one on a bus. What would be the purpose? If the system were set up properly popular bus stops would have bike sharing kiosks nearby. That said, it seems like it would fit just fine and without the stabilizing struts like those on Wald baskets, it seems as though the spring loaded arm would work on it. I doubt the basket would get in the way of operator visibility.

I bet they have some interesting injury statistics. I also bet their lawyers wouldn't let them release it

Scott, you might want to go somewhere that was within a mile of an unpopular bus stop -- or hadn't yet become part of the system. So you go down to the popular bus stop, pick up a sharebike, take it to (eg) Robinson Twp Mall, buy a basket-load of something, and bring it back to town.

If people were transporting bikes between far-flung stations, though, it would probably play hob with their balancing techniques.

I used Vélib' in Paris in 2009, and I had a great time of it. I don't remember anything about an uphill incentive but maybe that's a later innovation. I do remember reading stories about costly vandalism and lots of bikes ending up in the Seine.

There were bike stations EVERYWHERE. They were every few blocks, just as was mentioned. Sometimes they were full when I wanted to return my bike, and sometimes when I wanted to get one, they were all out of commission. (The popular signal of a backwards-facing saddle means something is mechanically wrong--instantly visible, super easy to correct when a repair team stops by. Unfortunately, I also saw some other out-of-towners helpfully turning those saddles around before renting them.)

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to seeing these in Pittsburgh. It seems like an overwhelming project on a massive scale, but obviously they've done it elsewhere in not that long.

Scott, here are a couple of examples of a bus use.

I exit my place of work Downtown, get a bike for a ride out the South Side Trail, but then a storm approaches. I figure I can ride out the storm by riding the bus out to South Side Works or wherever, and ride the bike back.

Here's another. I get a bike out and ride out past the casino to the old jail, but get overheated or a bee sting or something and can't ride it back. I hop a bus to get me back into town to return the bike.

Maybe those aren't the best uses of the bike, but they're plausible scenarios.

Multi Modal Man stikes again!

Re: the purpose of putting a share bike on a bus rack:

It seems intuitive that if someone needs to get downtown quickly from say Oakland, they could take out a bike, but for the return trip, would be more likely to hop a bus due to the hill climb. It had occurred to me that there are plenty of buses headed up the hill with empty bike racks, so if there were an incentive or credit to take the share bikes on uphill trips, the same people who might avoid the climb would be able to achieve the benefit by taking it back up on the bus. It could greatly reduce the cost to the share entity for bike shuttling. And get additional use out of the already existing bus bike racks.

and for those of us whose employers pay for a bus pass, it wouldn't even cost anything.

Brokeass college students could pay for their B-cycle membership by shuttling bikes uphill on buses (or not on buses), eliminate the B-cycle shuttle completely, except for maintenance, I suppose. Since it's all computerized, I could see email blasts "B-cycle - 6/14/11 7:00 am - 12 noon Stanwix T-sta to Forbes @ Bigelow - $3.00 credit".

http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2011/04/londons_cycle-hire_scheme

I particularly liked the comments by "Mister H" and "ji77eFXyKW"

You're going to cause me to read comments on something? Buh. Will I be sad?

Two thoughts.

Penalosa noted last night that in one city (which one eluded my hearing), taxis are required to have bike racks. As cabs in this town are rarer then Boletus edulis, and one can't regulate jitneys, I suspect jitneys would avail themselves of the free or cheap racks on craigslist (as was mentioned in the "use a car rack as a bike stand" thread), and make a few bucks after hours.

A pilot project on the Southside would not require out of town entities, and could be an opportunity to tentatively implement the "bike lane inside a line of parked cars" concept. Eliminate one lane of parked cars from one side of Carson from say 18th to SS Works, losing maybe a hundred parking spaces. Move the other line of parking out from the curb three to six feet. Bike rental at SS Works and some point at the other end of Carson. Cuts down on traffic, increases revenue for parking garages and what have you... I know there are problems with this notion, but because of the various players and their interests, it might be something which could garner across the board support?

On a fairly tangentially related note, I see that Avis is offering a pricing solution to moving cars around - substantial discounts on one-way rentals between NYC and EWR depending on the day of the week. Basically, they're offering a rate that is less than cab fare in order to get cars into the city for weekend users.

OT re bikes but on-topic re logistics management ...



For one-way rentals from NYC to Newark:

This rate applies only when the car is picked up between Sunday 3:00 pm through Monday 10:00 pm and is dropped off within 6 hours of the rental and no later than Monday 12 am (midnight).

For one-way rentals from Newark to NYC:

This rate applies only when the car is picked up between Thursday 1:00 pm through Friday 10:00 pm and is dropped off within 6 hours of the rental and no later than Friday 12 am (midnight). *

A higher rate will apply if rental exceeds 6 hours.