BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Oh no, a bike could leave the road and ride over a grave! What a disgrace that would be. I hope they ban cars soon as well. If bikes could leave the roadway and ride over graves, imagine what a car could do! If a car drove clear over a grave and knocked over a headstone...the horror... A bike couldn't do that much damage. On second thought, lets ban cars and permit bikes. Have a car parking lot right outside the front gate and issue everyone a bicycle. Problem solved.

I can see from the perspective if I'm going through a joyride through a cemetery. You have to at least consider that perspective.

Poor logic. Why punish the innocent for something they haven't done but are capable? I could also throw my bike at a small child yet I pass through 3 school crossing zones without concern. Morons are morons, they will find a way to screw things up for everyone.

It would do far more damage if an idiot in a car went on a joyride.

Stupid people infuriate me. I can't read more than one or two comments. Argh.

Those comments are pretty mild for a bike-related article.

Definitely a stupid policy.

Yeah, and just look at all the damage the bikes have done since Allegheny Cemetery opened up their roads to cyclists last year. Not.

For a while, in the late 60's there was a spate of cars doing donuts on grass. There was slang term for it, but that phrase is lost in the haze of decades.

Left a pretty good gouge in the lawn.

I recall it happening in Mt Lebanon Cemetary. I do not recall any discussion of banning cars from the cemetary afterwards...

A policy that appears to have been set by a non-rider. They could have simply stated that the bikes must stay on the paved roadways. I wonder if their policy addresses motorcycles. They have the same ability to ride over the grass as does my road bike (poor by the way, my roadbike would not go well over the grass).

the last comment listed (that starts "Sir") is actually quite respectful and reasoned, to the point that I not only see the point, but am inclined to agree with it. Though why the guy couldn't walk his bike through (as a respectful pedestrian) I don't quite get, and am not sure I will ever understand.

But I thought this summer they allowed bikes on the paths? I thought that was a new policy - did we lose that privilege? Was it only a summer (memorial to labor days) thing?

I read what ejwme read, and while reasoned, it still seems to me to be discriminatory. Can I take my motorcycle in there to visit a grave? My comparative pipsqueak 250cc road bike could do a lot of damage if I rode it disrespectfully someplace. I could also scream through there at 40mph with it. I could do the same with a car, too. I could run through there, no vehicle at all, and do handsprings over the graves, too. I wouldn't, but this is the concern.

So why are bicycles any different? This is all about treating hallowed ground as such, and being respectful to the dead and living alike. It has nothing to do with one's mode of transportation.

Change the rule.

If someone really wants to ride over the graves I am sure they will.

@orionz - "If someone really wants to ride over the graves I am sure they will." (my point from the other thread fits here, too, unfortunately).

Yeah. Haven't found a way to legislate "stupid" away yet.

The policy relegates a bike to toy status.

@ejwme: For the record, this is the "cemetery of the alleghenies" somewhere off of the montour trail. this isn't "allegheny cemetery" which does allow bikes. and as far as i know, people don't all of the sudden get disrespectful as soon as a bike goes between their legs

" as far as i know, people don't all of the sudden get disrespectful as soon as a bike goes between their legs"

but sometimes I think that happens when they get behind a steering wheel....

and some people, especially those behind steering wheels, seem to think people become disrespectful the moment the straddle a bicycle. it's like we're doing it at them.

The REAL stupidity in all of this that everyone fails to mention is — why the hell do we waste so much acreage and space digging holes to bury dead bodies so that we can put up a stone for the living to come cry about them over. Why the hell can't you just cry about your dead ancestors at home?

When I die, I hope they cremate my body, and invite all the people I can't stand over for dinner where I can announce via video-projection that they just got done eating my dead body after they are done wolfing down their desert.

whoa Adam, you're getting into cultural norm territory, which is prone to long lasting traditional practices coupled with strong feelings and refusal to change. "stupidity" isn't the best word for it. Short answer? Because traditionally, we've had the appropriate type of acreage to meet the demand without infringing on the majority of society's needs. For cultures/societies that don't, they do other things.

I didn't realize that the article was about a cemetery on the Montour trail. That revelation initially made me less inclined to agree with the articulate commenter, but I wondered why. Only conclusion I reached was that the demographic of casual visitors along the Montour trail, in my evidence-free mind, is different from the casual visitors to the one in Lawrenceville using it as a shortcut, and thus may naturally tend towards the more respectful, regardless of vehicle of choice.

But I'm not comfortable with that conclusion, because I can't find anything solid underneath it, so now I'm more confused about what I should think. I think banning anything outside respectful, quiet, unobtrusive, polite movement (regardless of mode of transportation) is acceptable, but I think their rules could be framed to better suit their cause, be less discriminatory, be more rational, and more effective.

Does that mean letting bicycles in? Not necessarily - it may mean banning other vehicles or uses in addition to bicycles. I guess, to me, it's not as simple as a ban/permit argument. But I'm also ok accepting that to most others it could be exactly that and should be resolved in kind.

I won't go into Adam's concern, but a recent visit by my sister, who manages a cemetery, did inform me there are more space-effective ways of storing remains than full plots. Highwood Cemetery, off of Brighton by Marshall, has a couple of 32-urn storage facilities which take up about the same amount of real estate as a chest freezer. But anyway.

My life's goal, to make it possible for society NOT to use a car, does make Adam's concern on-topic. Why have a cemetery 30 to 50 miles outside the center of a major metro area? With the sole exception of a couple of cyclists, everyone will get to their Piece Of Marble To Cry At by automobile. My own grandparents picked out their cemetery plot, in the 1950s, because it was on the #14 Abbott Road trolley line. Really. Get off trolley, walk in, deposit flowers, cry, get back on trolley, go home.

I guess this means I'm more inclined to agree with Adam than disagree. And I still don't see why I can't bike back to the grave if that's how I got to the front gate.

body farm. when i die let me rot above ground and feed carrion animals like i was meant to, thank you very much!

Stu, i lived in a place where 99.9% of the population traveled wherever they went their entire lives without a car (the rich took a moped or mass transit, the middle class took mass transit or bicycle, the poorest took bicycle, walked, or just stayed home). Something I noticed there - the most you could walk in any direction without hitting a village (50-200 ppl) was about 2 hours. The farthest you had to travel by foot until you got to something describable as a town (~1000 ppl) is about 8 hours. So a cemetery 30-50 miles outside a major metro area... that's the distance between certifiable "small cities" in a place that functions without personal automobiles.

"you're getting into cultural norm territory, which is prone to long lasting traditional practices coupled with strong feelings and refusal to change. "stupidity" isn't the best word for it. Short answer? Because traditionally, we've had the appropriate type of acreage to meet the demand without infringing on the majority of society's needs. For cultures/societies that don't, they do other things."

Wow. Whether we are talking about automobiles or cemetaries, that statement means exactly the same thing.

Cemeteries are pretty awesome greenspaces, markedly different than parks but green spaces nonetheless.

I agree, Homewood and Allegheny cemeteries are fantastic places to be (for the living). If we have to carve some stones and throw some bodies in there to sanctify their use for all time, then that's o.k. with me. Hardly a waste of space.

One of the grates in the cemeteries is responsible for my busted wheel.

Or I guess I'm responsible for not seeing it. But still. Ouch.

I think the difference between a cemetery and a park is exactly the thinking that has banned bikes in the subject cemetery. I'm not necessarily agreeing with it, but the distinction is obviously important.

My father is buried at the National Cemetery of the Alleghenies. As I live in the South Hills, I've ridded out there a few times and have encountered 0 problems with security.

There is a sign posted near the entrance that indicates the cemetery is not to be used for any recreational activities, but does not specifically state no bicycles permitted on the grounds. Maybe my situation is different, as security has seen me head directly to a gravesite and not cycling around the property in a sightseeing manor.

You see this letter posted in response?

Allow bicycles

I am responding to Dean DeGregorio's letter informing us that while on his bicycle he had been turned away from the National Cemetery of the Alleghenies ( "Bikes Not Allowed," Sept. 14).

As the daughter of a veteran who is buried there, I feel shamed that Mr. DeGregorio was not allowed to sense the beauty and serenity of the final resting place of those who fought for and served this country.

I don't think that my father served 14 years in the Marine Corps so that a person wishing to pay his respects to him and those who surround him could be turned away because of his mode of transportation. My wish is that Mr. DeGregorio is contacted by the Department of Veteran Affairs and welcomed to visit the cemetery, while on his bike.

MAUREEN R. McNEILL

Scott