BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Sizing bigger with gloves works also, helps trap warm air and gives room for wool glove liners.

Riding a bike is warmer than waiting for the bus. It's also warmer than scraping ice off your car windshield.

There is no bad weather, only insufficient equipment. (ancient REI proverb)

Does anybody have any really brilliant tricks or incredibly amazing gloves/socks/etc. to recommend for fingers and toes that get and stay painfully cold?

I think I have some kind of circulation problem, but there's not much I can do about it (it's always weird because the rest of my body warms up really easily if I'm moving while the extremities just keep getting more painful). It's already an issue even though I'm not cold otherwise, so I'm worried. It was something I could ignore in Tennessee since it wasn't particularly cold for most of the year, but Pittsburgh is another story - I'm guessing this is going to get quite a bit worse as real winter arrives. I try to buy good winter stuff, but it doesn't really help much... but maybe I'm just clueless from growing up in the South. Please let me know if the northern half of the country has been hoarding some kind of secret magic sock technology all these years.

you want layers, but not constricting layers: like, you could wear two pairs of socks, but if it's hard to get your shoes on then more than likely your feet will be just as cold - or worse - because you're restricting bloodflow.

Same with gloves. lots of folks use ski/work gloves with thinner, knitted inserts.

the more expensive ski/cycling gloves have multiple layers built in.

As mentioned last year, I have raynaud's. I rode into work on Friday morning with appropriately fitting and layered clothing for my extremities and they still did the whole white, blue, then red thing. I just have to chose my route better (make it shorter). I can't do much sledding, but I did ride to work last year when the windchill was -10 and the temp was 0. Now that was pretty painful, but I can usually tolerate weather like this better. So it can be done. Skiing gloves, shoe covers, solid keens, and wool socks are very helpful, in addition to a heavier cycling jacket, scarf, helmet cover, and heavy tights

As far as gloves go, my best pair of cold weather gloves are some department store Thinsulate models that an older relative gave to me years ago. I am routinely shocked how they outperform every other technical glove I've owned. And I bet they cost $10.

As far as layering goes, unless you suffer from something like Raynaud's, or you have a short-ish commute, you should be chilly when you first get on the bike. If you are warm, you will likely get too warm, and begin to sweat a lot.

If you wear "cycling shoes," invest in a pair of good shoe covers. If you don't, Sloaps hit the nail on the head. If you can't layer socks under your normal riding shoes, but another pair for the winter that are a half size too big.

Typical winter kit for me is:

* Thin wool t-shirt

* Thin wool long sleeve shirt

* Lightweight, windproof fleece jacket

* Soft shell jacket

* Long johns (if the temps are under 25-ish)

I can add a vest or other thin layers up top as the temps go lower.

I have raynaud's also and it's worse in my fingers than toes. I wear lots of layers and got a pair of lobster gloves last fall/winter. They're good for longer rides. I was told that they would keep my fingers circulating through anything and that wasn't the case, but they were definitely decent for my zombie fingers. When it gets really cold in the winter I use big ski mittens with the little hand warmer packets inside. Those do the trick!

Looking ahead to frigid temps, a quick review of the Winter Pool Ride may prove helpful (link).

Short answer: wool.

Long answer:

- must have: smart wool glove liners - if you have big gloves (see below) then you can't fiddle with zippers or keys to lock your bike, when you have glove liners, you can remove the big gloves and do all of the above without freezing fingers

- some sort of Thinsulate ski gloves (some people prefer lobster claw type) over the glove liners

- I usually have pain in my wrists when they get cold. Arthritis at 30? Dunno. It is caused by that inevitable gap between all my shirt layers and all my glove layers. These totally solved that problem and I love them.

- I have wool arm warmers I toss on as well from time to time

- For your head, get a skullcap for under your helmet and a balaclava/neck gaiter to keep your face/neck warm. I use a smart wool one.

- My feet, i usually wear a pair of plain white polyester socks and a pair of wool socks over the top. If it gets very cold, I toss on some neoprene shoe covers as well.

@Stu a quick review of the Winter Pool Ride

That is a excellent disseration on the cold. I particularly like that you mention preparation for getting off the bus.

One thing about the winter pool ride- (this is my recollection which might be a little fuzzy). I believe the actual temperature, while frigid, was 10 degrees warmer than weather.com predicted.

Had it been the same frigid temps, but the prediction 10 degrees warmer than the reality, there would have been a few more problems. And there were quite a few drop outs, anyhow, IIRC.

Note: This year there are still convenience stores selling dark cotton workman's gloves (classics - once mentioned by Walt Whitmore in poetry about the civil war).

The convenience store near me has them for $1.99.

They make OK glove liners and can make a huge difference. If you have small hands, and light gloves, you could probably stretch the XL over your gloves.

The cotton is only a tiny bit thicker than poly glove lines, and it is cotton, but it's a nice resource to be able to find at 2 in the morning on the way home, say.

best advice, repeated: grow a beard!

(but if you can't, i don't recommend finding an amish man and saying "i'll just have it off of him, then.")

+1 on the beard, and +1 on lobster claw style gloves. I have the Pearl Izumi version (got them at REI) and while they're a bit expensive, they are warmer than gloves and still let you use your shifters and brake levers. Add some liner gloves inside for the really cold days.

+1 for Pearl Izumi lobster gloves.

Hunting & fishing gloves are an expensive option. Wallyworld sells waterproof neoprene fishing gloves for about $16 and they also have a set of (Remington?) puffy bright orange gloves for $20. They are very warm and quite noticeable when signaling for a turn.

The puffy bright orange gloves are approved by the Chew-man:

When my goretex ski gloves with liners got old and started to leak (allowing cold air in) I started wearing a newspaper bag with a thumbhole in it over each hand to keep my fingers warm.

My winter setup:

-Grow a beard (if possible)

-Balaclava under helmet (or skullcap and scarf). My bern helmet is great because of less ventilation.

-Clear glasses (or ski goggles when it's really frigid).

-Waterproof Ski glove (mine have a handwarmer pocket).

-Shoes with less ventilation (I have some leather adidas that keep me dry for most short winter commutes)

-thermals under my jeans.

-thermals, t-shirt, long-sleeve shirt, jacket. Remove any item as needed depending on the temp change.

-Wool Socks (well, pretty much wool everything preferred)

My winter set up from the feet up. Lake Boots http://www.amazon.com/Lake-Mens-MXZ302-Cycling-Black/dp/B003ADGPN0/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1320086756&sr=8-5

Smart Wool socks http://www.rei.com/product/604590/smartwool-expedition-trekking-socks

PI tights http://shop.pearlizumi.com/product.php?mode=view&pc_id=47&product_id=1578588&outlet=

Castelli Jacket http://www.realcyclist.com/castelli-espresso-due-jacket-mens?CMP_ID=PM_VL0328

PI lobster gloves http://www.rei.com/product/819870/pearl-izumi-pro-softshell-lobster-bike-gloves

Smart Wool liners http://www.rei.com/product/801124/smartwool-cozy-gloves

and a wind proof Balaclava with a skullcap on top of it.

Ski goggles and a Bern helmet or insulated ski helmet.

man, i really hate cold weather, but there was something inexplicably joyous about riding through the deep snow last year. when all your attention is focused on remaining upright, that slight hill that irritates you day after day no longer earns acknowledgement.

DISCLAIMER: I am a strong advocate of preparation over equipment, and working with what you have, mostly because I can't afford most weather-specific gear.

That being said, layers = always best friend for life, no matter who you are

In temperatures below 10°F:

On my feet/legs: one-two pairs of socks, whatever shoes I have that are dry (my shoes currently have holes in them, so I need to get a new pair before the season progresses too far). Then a thin pair of pajama pants under a pair of sweats under my work pants.

Torso: Tshirt, sweater, thin hoodie, thick hoodie, wool coat

Hands: whatever cheap gloves I have (I had this style in red last winter - they cost me $3, and I often took them off because they were too warm. Sadly, they're lost now )

on my head - hair down, hood on my thin hoodie up, helmet with tape over the vents

I also wrap a wool scarf around my face before I put on my hood/helmet.

Anyway, I always hated snow and winter - until I started riding a bike through it.

Don't forget to give your bike love, keep it clean. Salt+bike=

mr marv +1

salt will greatly increase corrosion of the metal parts of your bike, and thus decrease their lifespan.

@RubberFactory - you're an inspiration!

i have good gloves and also wear plastic gloves under my regular gloves the plastic seems to hold the heat in i also wear a rain jacket under my coat when its really cold like under 20 degrees the plastic helps hold your body heat in

+1 for pearl izumi lobster gloves! i use the men's small and they are perfectly roomy and warm for my small hands

- keen leather waterproof hiking sneakers

- patagonia soft shell jacket with a hood. before i got this fancy thing i just wore a lot of crazy hoodies layers and i was plenty warm.

- i'm really into american apparel's winter leggings as a base layer. they are really good on their own in 40-50 degree weather, but i think they will work great under other layers during really cold days.

- i spend a lot of my winters wearing fancy dress tights under the same pair of jeans (and then a dress or skirt over the jeans) while going to and fro work and stuff. tights work great under jeans to keep warm for short commutes too! show up at work, take your pants off, change your shoes and presto! instant work outfit.

Man, all of this is great advice. I think the only thing I haven't tried so far is the plastic-bag-between-socks/gloves thing. Maybe that will keep my toes warm long enough for me to survive my commutes this winter. I don't think I have Reynaud's, but there's something weird going on considering how many outdoor adventures have been cut short just because of my half-frozen toes (even with boots and multiple pairs of socks, and even with the rest of my body being totally fine).

Speaking of repurposing gloves meant for other activities like fishing and hunting, I actually bought some of these the other day (for even less than it says they cost):

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/north-american-trading-deerskin-gloves-with-reflective-strip-insulated-for-men-and-women~p~3908j/?filterString=search~reflective%2F&colorFamily=01

They might not be fashionable (yet), but I think they will be awesome when I need people to see my turn signals.

This is also a shameless plug for Sierra Trading Post, the website where I got those: if you don't already know about it, it's amazing for pretty much any kind of outdoorsy gear or clothing (including some fancy cycling stuff), as well as some other random things. Their listed prices are already deeply discounted, but you never even have to pay those because there is always some email/Facebook/other coupon for at least an extra 20-50% off. I have needed a lot of stuff to update my wardrobe now that I'm living somewhere with real winter, and I wouldn't have been able to afford that stuff anywhere else! I hardly ever shop anywhere else for athletic or weather-specific clothing anymore.

@ pearmask outdoor adventures have been cut short just because of my half-frozen toes (even with boots and multiple pairs of socks, and even with the rest of my body being totally fine).

Wow.

There is some slight chance you have some technical problem - maybe enough socks that you can't move your feet or something? But it sounds lik emore than that.

Whatever it takes is what you should use for the cold.

In your case, it sounds like some extreme measures are what it it takes to get 'er done. ("You must be insane to have that on your feet!")

I would look into battery- or chemical-powered warmers. Failing that, larger boots with more wool socks and maybe wool felt insoles (can you still get those?). With room to wiggle the toes.

Boots are expensive and awkward. For me, athletic shoes with enough room for more socks /and wiggle room/ are way better than good insulated boots without room. Maybe 1.5 sizes larger than usual? XL and XXL socks?

You might also mention to a doctor sometime, but chances are the doc will just say "Hmmm" about it.

Did I mention room to move your toes?

Pearmask- one word solution for any of your cold weather outdoor adventures - Sorel. I had a pair of Sorel felt liner boots that I got when I was 16 that lasted about 30 years, then I bought another pair. A liner sock, wool socks, and felt liner boots will take you to about -30 F.

@pearmask, I don't think I have reynauds either, but I seem to have pretty crappy circulation. At the science center they have a display with a thermal camera and when I stand in front of it my nose, ears and fingers always show up as blue. So in the wintertime my hands and feet are cold too because no amount of layers can keep something warm that wasn't putting off any heat to begin with. I suggest the heat packs like Mick said above.

The big thing is:

Whatever it takes.

If you need to put your long sleeve shirt under your windbreaker when it gets down to 10F? Good for you.

If you need to haul a space suit battery pac around to keep your toes warm inside artic boots when it gets 27F? That is better than staying indoors. (At least in my opinion. I think most people here agree.)

After putting long johns and glove liners on Sunday afternoon, I realized that if I got more extreme, people would actually wonder about my mental health. (I mean, like, more than they do now. Even.) Like the homeless guy who wanders round Oakland in his winter coat over 4 layers when it's 90F out.

If I had Reynauds, I'd probably start with silly-looking mittens over "appropriate gloves" at temps above freezing and work my way from there.

People would look. Eyes would roll.

Whatever it takes.

Well I think Mick just summed it all up with that.

It's true you don't need to spend a lot of money on expensive stuff. Some of my suggestions are a little pricy. Your local Thrift store often has a nice selection of layer-able winter gear.

I think I'm somewhere in the middle. I can definitely spring for a few nice things, but for now I will only covet the lake boots

I will second pearmask's recommendation of Sierra Trading Post. They've been around forever & sell good seconds & last season's name brand stuff. My family has bought stuff from them since the 80s. Yeah - before internet & when the products were illustrated with amazing pencil sketches by the owner's son. They have a lot of good wool on there - I just ordered some!

@edmonds: I have actually been looking at some Sorel boots for a while and wondering whether they were as warm and awesome as they looked... I think I'm finally sold.

And they will probably have some preposterous furry stuff sticking out of the top, just to keep things exciting, and that's where I would like to refer back to Mick's excellent advice. Even it if it ends up looking like large mammals have wrapped themselves around the bottom quarter of my body... worth it.

Also, does anyone know whether there is a good reusable alternative to those disposable toe warmer packets? The battery-powered heated socks I've seen don't seem awesome, but is there any chance that there's some practical little microwaveable thing that's basically like those disposable ones?

I think the consensus on the cause of this, based on what my doctor parents have said, is "maybe poor circulation but not to the point of fitting any diagnosis" and "probably made worse by a history of anemia" but mostly just "Hmmm." And it is worse when I cram too many socks into tighter pairs of shoes, but it happens even without that. Meh. I'm just strange. And @tabby I bet I look like that on that thermal camera too; I'm curious now!

For those looking for a bargain, I just tried a pair of these equestrian riding gloves. I bought them back in the spring and hadn’t had a chance to try them. We did a fair amount of fast downhills tonight and my hands were toasty. The wind-block works great and sweating on the up hills didn’t seem to affect their warmth. They are almost liner thin so when it gets really cold you could buy them small to use as liners, or buy them big and use a liner inside these. A fellow rider (Steve?) had $40 cycling gloves on and his hands were COLD. At less than $11, I give these five stars.

Mmm, Sorel seems to have gone a bit nutty with the styling, so if you're not crazy about the furries, looking at Sierra, Kamik, Baffin and Itasca seem to all be similar (and Canadian). Also at less designer-y price points. The key to warmth is "removeable felt liner", 8 mm minimum. Not furries.

Plain-ass warm boots here: http://www.zappos.com/sorel-1964-premium-t-buff?zlfid=111&recoName=zap_pdp_cross Winter will know you are not effing around in these.

I think I remember a similar discussion last year with folks that had similar chronic issues with keeping extremities warm. In addition to the glove/sock layering, etc. they talked about being sure to keep your core warm and that would have a trickle down effect, so to speak.

It sounds like the rest of you is warm, but maybe try staying warmer?

Mr. marvelous: are the AmFIB not too warm?

I have ordered from Sierra Trading Post but prefer not to because of this:

"We Believe our business ethics must be consistent with the faith of the owners in Jesus Christ and His teachings"

The AmFib's are too warm for temperatures over 32-40ish depending on the person

Tip: silk works about as well as wool.

Sometimes if you need to look sharp, it's the way to go.

@helen s: I definitely know what you mean, and I actually did some informal research (AKA Googling) recently to see whether I needed to feel conflicted about the amount of money that I spend with them. I couldn't find anything scary (i.e., I don't know about them donating money to or making political statements about anything upsetting), and the extent of their "evangelism" is that they sometimes print scriptures on invoices and things (they're not yelling on street corners or anything as far as I know). So... if their religious beliefs just mean that they run a company that treats their customers kindly, that they offer good prices instead of absolutely maximizing profit, and that they think it's important to have an "open door policy" so that customers feel like problems and complaints will be addressed, then I am okay with that. The founder has a letter written on their website in response to questions that they've received about their belief statements, actually (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/lp2/we-believe ). It's worth a read if that issue matters to you.

(edit: okay, well, the founder of the company does donate money to the RNC pretty consistently, but I don't think that makes them terribly unique among large companies, whether those companies are owned by Christians or not)

re: core warmth: I retain my (core) heat A LOT when I run, to the point where even if I start out chilly I am desperately unzipping every possible part of my jacket halfway through. The same is mostly true when I bike, although the wind helps keep my core temp down (but of course it also makes the finger/toe problem worse). I do make a point of not letting my core get too cold for the sake of my extremities, but I just really don't like feeling overheated (especially commuting - my students look at me like I'm crazy when I walk into class all sweaty!), so I don't think I can go much further with that most of the time. On the other hand, I don't have much experience with either of these things below mid-20s or so, but I'm guessing that's when I'll need to be extra-cautious about staying warm in general... so I will keep that advice in mind as it gets colder

Also, this thread has made me slightly jealous of male people:

1. The ability to grow a beard would be so useful in the winter

2. Sorel has a lot more reasonable-looking styles in men's boots (but they have at least a couple of women's styles that fall under the threshold of wtf-is-that-creature-growing-on-your-leg, so I'll get over it)

It's harder to keep the dangly bits downstairs warm when biking in the cold, if that's any compensation.