BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

It is on radio website. 2 am. Cyclist left with bloody face. Taken to hospital. Driver fled.

Just read it and headed over here to see if anybody knew what happened. Linky:

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2010/12/15/bike-rider-attacked-injured-downtown/

I wonder if the driver did that deed right under the sign in the image (in Pinky's link. It says "Bicycle Friendly Community")?

I hope the cyclist is all right. There's just no excuse for that kind of violent rage against another person.

Why does the driver always flee?

That bike is ridden by a friend of mine. Unless someone around town has the same bike. He is a cook at OTB and could of been on his way home from work. I will call him while I'm at work today and double check and also make sure he is ok.

^msprout usually because the false veil of security from their tin can is suddenly gone. The transformation from "I have all the power in the world, vroom vroom" to "my gosh what have I done" seems to be a big influence. Then again, I realize it is me being optimistic the latter happens.

Willie, let us know if that ends up being the case, and if there is anything he (or if dif person, she) needs help with.

Disgusting. I wonder what happened.

The drivers usually flee because they're drunk.

Disgusting is a good word for it; I hope the cyclist is ok.

MSprout, the drivers always flee because reporters like cliches.

what's interesting is, when all you've ever done is drive a car, you really don't have an accurate perception of how fast 25 miles per hour is. Roads and highways are engineered to make distances seem to move more slowly, to help people get a heads-up on what's coming ahead.

When you're on a bike, you don't have tunnel vision - you get to experience first-hand how harrowing and dangerous 25 MPH can be.

So, you're left with these drivers that were raised with cars and only have driven cars – literally no perception that hitting someone at 20 MPH can be fatal. To them, it's no faster than running.

If you're inside of the crumplezone baby carriage, you probably will survive a 60mph hit, but that damages perceptions as well. If you hit something at 60mph in a car, only you survive. The other stuff didn't have a crumple zone.

I've had people tell me that when cyclists get hit and killed it's their own fault - what did they expect would happen? depressing.

That's the policy of the new mayor of Toronto Rob Ford. That if you get hit when you're riding... well you shouldn't have been playing with cars anyway and too bad.

msprout Why does the driver always flee?

This is not a hit-and-run accident though, it was an assault.

It was a car-based equvalent of what happened to various bikers with the kids in East Liberty.

Of course the driver fled - when you do a crime deliberately, you don't wait around for the police.

I'd guess he was also driving drunk.

Plenty of times where a driver stops after an accident with a bike. Some reported here. So it isn't an "always" thing.

Part of the "fleeing" thing is that the penalty for leaving the scene of an accident is much less than the penalty for drunk driving. To me, that is indication that we have drunk driving hysteria.

I'm guessing drunk driving for a repeated offender might even be a more serious crime than simple assault.

seems to me that MADD and all the other larger, more "mainstream" advocacy groups could join forces (with BPGH too), get the fleeing penalty to be raised above pretty much everything else, and fix that.

Commit a crime? stick around and fess up or face serious jail time/fines. Easy way to legislate responsibility back into society.

Yeah a nurse at my work said he wants to ram into cyclists with his truck when he sees them on his road. I have mentioned this before here. I still have to hide my displeasure with him when he is in our OR.

"my road"

"Commit a crime? stick around and fess up or face serious jail time/fines. Easy way to legislate responsibility back into society."

That would eliminate a tremendous amount of Lawyer and Court Clerk jobs.

"Yeah a nurse at my work said he wants to ram into cyclists with his truck when he sees them on his road."

But then would he be obligated to render first aid? What a paradox!

I still think you should publicly shame him every time you work with him.

"Hey, Dr Hubner, did you know Bob wants to kill me?" even better if Little PeePee is working with you that day. then you guys can gang up on him.

ramming bicyclists: as amurican as apple pie

morninsider - they'd still have all the crimes to defend/prosecute/put through the system. Just more answers. And maybe vehicular homiciders would get their $500 fine resolution faster.

did anyone find out more about the person who was hurt?

Male nurse that drive a truck...probably over compensating for something

Maybe the driver knew the cyclist (or someone related), had already a beef with him/her, and thus was waiting cowardly to exact their attack?

I'm not blaming anyone, but this seems too premeditated to just be a random drunk-ass attack waiting for a cyclist at 2am in the morning to beat down.

Any updates?

No updates yet. I should hear some new info soon.

Hey, so this guy is my co-worker. I just found out. He works at OTB. From what I understand he's recovering well, but keep him in your thoughts!

We will. Let us know if there is anything that we can do

thanks, i will! i'll be back at work on Friday. If i hear anything else, I will definitely let you guys know. For now, be safe out there!

If you abandon a car, there would be registration, VIN, fingerprints, DNA, whatever all, right there for the gathering. If they don't ID this guy in < 12 hours, I would be very surprised. I'm already surprised this hasn't been (to my knowledge) made public.

WPXI says the driver drove off, rather than ran off.

I hate that KDKA wrote that the guy ran off, when they meant drive.

My impression was that the driver ran off in his car.

[edit: another link: wpxi.com]

I run home all the time, on my bike.

Lots of security cameras located near intersections downtown, aren't there?

Hey folks, I just got home from work but I did hear from the rider not long ago. He is in the hospital still but he is going to be ok. The picture he sent to me of himself is pretty scary looking. Apparently the driver almost hit him so he went up to the car and knocked on the window. That is when the driver got out and assaulted him. I really hope they find this loser and lock him up for a good long time.

i figured it was that type of scenario, willie. some sort of heated verbal exchange probably took place. i hope they catch the guy. what a douche. i am hoping the news would report more on this.

So assuming they ID this person, it seems like an ideal time for another visit to Zappala. Couldn't do anything about Don Parker, or the lady who hit the kid with the Audi, here's a freaking assault case! WTF?

If I had a bazillion dollars, I'd buy myself and everyone on this board a helmet cam. We can't hope for someone's 100-foot-away security cam to catch these Adam's apples in the act. (As one example, whatever became of that Allies/Wood accident a couple months ago, supposedly caught on a Point Park College cam?)

In this case, such a cam would have captured the initial incident, the plate #, the cyclist's approach, and the escalation into an assault. Hard evidence. Done and done.

Let's hope that if it was caught on camera, that he had lights on and was following all the laws when the "near miss" occurred. Otherwise, it most likely will be looked at as a provocation with the driver "defending" himself.

On the news last night they showed his bike. The front light was still flashing when they filmed it. They also reported that the car sideswiped him.

here's hoping for swift and complete recovery and justice.

I work for PNC's Helpdesk so this morning I called building security at Firstside and asked if they could look at the tapes to see of they caught anything at Grant and First. They wouldn't do anything for me but if the Police call them they will.

I've already sent a private message to Willie and OHgrrl to pass on to Nathan.

Now that the news stories have pictures I realize I know Nathan from a few nights of polo. Not like it makes the incident any more or less disgusting, but somehow knowing Nathan makes it... I don't know. Different or something.

More information

Whoever attacked him really let loose. What do they mean by sideswiped?

"He was only able to describe his attacker as white, bald and stocky."

Maybe it was a cop? (obvious stereotype)

Jeesus!

A quick and full recovery-wishes for Nathan!

And hope that they get that S.O.B. so he can be thrown in jail as he should! Bastard!!!

I hope he can cover his hospital costs. OTB should put out a donations bucket... on say, Monday the 20th...

god the damage really says it wasn't just a couple little punches

Quizbot you may be onto something there. It seems like this guy knew how to throw a punch. Maybe he was just getting off of his shift at the jail or something along those lines even.

Kordite, I passed that info along. Hopefully the cops do their job and look at those videos.

Got as far as the first two commenters on the Channel 4 article... don't have the stomach for more.

The most recent styles himself as "someone with a passion for both cycling and self defense", and makes some reasonable points, although #3 is a doozy.

Quote: "He went looking for confrontation unprepared and got his butt whooped. Stupid brainless move and he got what was coming to him."

The pathology in that statement, that victims of violent crime get what's coming to them, is pretty obvious. But, "he went looking for confrontation"... really? Based on what facts which have been presented? Alerting someone to the fact that they endangered someone, or in fact, had an accident (if indeed the cyclist's account is correct), is going "looking for confrontation"? Interesting viewpoint..., probably commonplace..., and decidedly pathological.

...and that was the sane post.

The prior poster, edlovelace, despite the fact that he's likely nothing more than a drone, is a master enforcer of Orwellian falsehood. He begins by removing all agency from the assailant with the words, "Simple case of road rage."

Road rage - an abstract noun. The attack is so puny and self-evident that it can be dispatched with four words. It's common wisdom. We needn't consider it further. (We should, however, all be afraid, and conduct ourselves out of fear).

The rest of the post:

"...I assume he was not injured in "sideswipe" portion of the story? So, he had to puff his chest out and go get some satisfaction. The only thing he got was a lesson, learned the hard way. He's lucky he didn't get shot! This is a dangerous world we live in. Don't MAKE yourself a victim."

If anyone wants to parse that abomination, please do. I will simply agree with the poster that it is indeed a dangerous world - because of real psycopaths (which are comparatively few) and their enablers (which are legion).

Best wishes to the fellow who was attacked.

wayfinder - I marked the last post you quoted as inappropriate. If enough people speak up against this ridiculousness, it won't be tolerated in the public discourse. Much the same way ethnic slurs are now not printed in respectable papers.

edited to clarify - wayfinder's post was appropriate, the comment s/he quoted from the story page was inappropriate, as wayfinder indicated.

@wayfinder - your post was involving and articulate, and demonstrated a clear tendency toward rational consideration of matters in general. why, then, are you reading news article comments and trying to grope for humanity among them?

I think it's pretty great that both the cyclist and his wife (in the TV news clip) say that they'll keep riding & that overall riding in the city is pretty good.

Comments on posts like this are really disheartening, but it would help if people on this message board posted some sane responses so that it is clear how many people ride bikes, how many are furious about this violence, and how we won't tolerate it here.

(I think)

He and his wife were both seemed dumb founded that the reporters seemed to think they wouldn't ride anymore. I love how they we like "ya we'll keep riding, this is a pretty good place for biking"

It is at times difficult for me to stick to reasoned and rational responses. This would be one of those situations.

Just ignore the comments of any online story and you'll have an easier time of things. There are a lot of mouth breathing blowhards that do nothing more than post comments about how superior they are and how stupid everyone else is, all while living in their mom's basement.

I've not been on the board much the past few days. (Stupid work, making me...errr work.)

Anyway, is there any kind of medical bill/legal fund set up yet?

The posts that have been quoted are indeed awful. There are some great things about internet anonymity... but the arm chair warriors are not one of them.

I've actually met a few people who posted stuff like this online and admitted to it. Not about cycling per se, but the same type of rhetoric. Meekest people I've ever met... one of them was a person interviewing for a job. Needless to say, once I saw what was being posted I made sure the person wasn't hired.

So how is a cyclist supposed to swap insurance information after an accident without knocking on the window if the driver doesn't get out of the car?

I don't think there is an official fund, but there is going to be a donation bucket at the informal meet up on Monday at OTB

Needless to say, once I saw what was being posted I made sure the person wasn't hired.

I can't figure out why people write horrible things on the internet and think that it will never affect them.

I know of at least three people who didn't get jobs because of a similar situation. All three times the interviewer mentioned it to them. Two of them couldn't figure out why it mattered, the other one realized it and doesn't write anything online--I think he is also the only one of the three that is currently employed.

Hopefully they arrest the driver responsible for this terrible assault. If they do find the person Nathan should get a lawyer and sue the crap out of him. This entire situation was started buy a car accident so this person’s insurance my be liable.

'EFFING EGG!

I just read the comments on the news website.... are those people for real? Claiming that this attack was guaranted? I know that Pittsburgh still has a long way to go in regards to bike-acceptance and all, but some of those posts are just plain ignorant... GRRLLLL

(SO trying not to log in there and speak my mind in there)....

Seriously, just write off the posters as mouth breathing men in their mom's basement apartment and you'll feel better. And then quite reading unmoderated comments online all together.

If you really want to be aggravated by stupid comments go check out the rants and raves on craigslist for the last 3 days. Its scary what some of these people think. I know its mostly bull shit but you never know when one of those nuts is gonna go out and feel the need to prove himself.

CL Rants and Raves — a common synonym for anonymous hate speech.

I don't know why but every few weeks I get curious and look at them. Then I get annoyed and remember why I stopped looking. On the good side there was a post or two where the poster stated that bikes do have a right to the road and one even posted a link to the laws.

Here's another link to some laws for them to think about:

http://paopencarry.org/

Yeah, but if you're a cyclist and you defend yourself with a firearm, you go to prison.

I'm not advocating it as a solution in the least, more in the hypothetical of people threatening to run folks over and assault them and others posting laws about it.

+1 on ignoring online article comments. It's just not worth raising my blood pressure and wasting my time. Sometimes I have to remind myself of that, but it's a good rule of thumb.

Is there any chance that anything IDing the driver was caught somewhere. Are the police looking into the camera mentioned above? Any news at all? I hate to see this guy get away with it!

We're putting together a few raffle items for Monday night and will donate the proceeds to his medical costs.

Also, we'll be doing a silent auction of the 58cm Trek District in our office as well as one of the two remaining "It Just Makes Sense Shirts".

The bidding for the bike will start at $300 and would be a great gift for the tall cyclist in your life, and the t-shirt will start around $20. They won't be printed again so this is the last opportunity to get one of these... while helping to cover medical costs for this violent incident.

in the expanded castle doctrine law that Rendell vetoed and will likely be reintroduced (and passed) in the next legislative session included the legal use of lethal force (without first retreating) if you are accosted in your home, yard, business or VEHICLE.

remember: bicycles are legally vehicles.

*sigh*

I was wisked for lunch and did not post anything......

Yes, I know it is unhealthy and unproductive to join that kind of ignorant and inane discourse. And no, I don't want to join the rants just for the fun to shout back. However, given that most of those posts are pro-asswhipes, I feel as-if someone should post more informed-pro cyclist views since it is so one-sided in negativity.

In my mind, someone who's never dealt much with cyclists while driving a motor vehicle might read that and be "wow, I better watch out for those crazy cyclists" and become an aggressive driver towards us. Or, someone who is interetsted in commuting in their bike, or who is considering riding their bike more on the streets, might read those comments and be deterred by them given the negativity.

And I guess on a different level, specially with the posts regarding that generalize that all cyclists do not obey traffic-road rules, just reminds me of the time earlier this year when I was almost hit by a car going the wrong-way on a one-way street ON a red light.... that was PURE BAD DRIVING, and thank God that I had stopped at the red light and looked ahead and avoided being hit (although I still injured myself with the fall on rode my bike home bleeding). Plus, it also makes me think of the friends who I know have been jumped on their bikes by thugs off the street. Or reminds me of Don Parker or Dr. Vaccarallo who were killed this year in their bikes by BAD drivers, or the reports here in the boards of other people who have been in accidents or near-accidents due to BAD drivers... or "unfortunate accidents" as our laws and such would like to call them.

Seeeshs.

Argh... just my two-cents I guess, but how unfortunate indeed.

And is just --not fair-- that's all

That is a great use of the Trek District.

How long will the bidding be open? Any chance we can get it placed in OTB for a while accepting bids? Something tells me we can get a bunch of cash for Nathan if we have the bike in a prominent place for a a week or three.

just flag comments that make you mad or ignore that all together. im surprised news outlets even allow comments still, after reading the incredibly ignorant and racist ones on KDKA the week that Nine Mile Run was held up at gun point.

sometimes I think the news people have trolls on there post outrageous things just to get more hits from indignant people forwarding and posting and replying.

I so want to post something on the news article to show that this unchecked aggression will not stand (dude), but when and argument starts, I have a tendency to either fly off the handle or just troll the fuck out of everyone around me. It doesn't end well.

Also, regarding news outlets online, I "became a fan" of a local news station back home on facebook to keep up with what was going on back there, forgetting that it was a fox affiliate. The comments on there brought out the worst in me. I used to argue with everyone on there, until I realized that I'd be better off just leaving the page.

If you want a less grim reminder of why you should never, ever heed unmoderated online comments, look at any youtube video.

@ejwme, I think you are right... also from my days on USENET I'd be willing there are lot of people just trolling for some kind of thrill. They don't mean what they say, they are just trying to provoke a reaction.

Chances of me making the get together on Monday are pretty low.

*Sigh* It seems like every time bike-pgh or drinking skeptically plan something, its on a night I already have plans. On of these days, I'll start meeting some of you IRL.

I'll have to figure out some other way to contribute, I think.