BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

luckily they're large, so they're easy to see. now, if you could get them to stop quacking at me, we could begin to discuss sharing this planet.

Not a chance.

The Duck Boats that are the key to the UN Secret Plan for World Domination. All these bikes are just a distraction.

The Duck Boats that are the key to the UN Secret Plan for World Domination. All these bikes are just a distraction.

Aha! And that would explain the LST steaming upriver to Pittsburgh at this very moment..

Vorpal Dormouse, long time no hear! How's it going?

Your point is taken.

I love the duck boats, they're fun. Additionally they are usually filled with visitors to Pgh. So aside from the safety issue, an excellent way to give visitors a crappy first impression of Pittsburgh cyclists would be to act like an asshat when temporarily inconvenienced by a duck boat (and I know you're joshing, HV, this is not directed to you). So I would suggest being safe, lightening up, and have fun. I normally quack back.

Sorta sounds to me like the onus is on the 8-ton former battlecraft to proceed cautiously along a bike/ped trail that doesn't usually have motor vehicles on it. Doesn't mean you gotta be mean to the duck boats, though.

yeah, it is a shame that the duck boats have to use the trail and that a better arrangement couldn't have been made for all users. while everyone on here will agree that it's stupid to bike out in front of one, i've also seen the drivers do things like drive too fast on there. it's a shame because the whole arrangement only creates an us vs them thing.

didn't know they were designed for fighting in WWII. how did they fare?

Erok, they were very effective at quacking the enemies morale

Wow, I want to see that LST.

""He came up to me and said, 'I have my orders, and they are to leave you alone,' " Jornlin said."

See, people/beauracracies don't always have to be asshats. Many just choose to be.

Woah, those are some crazy nested quotations, edmonds.

Ha! Thanks for noticing.

Re: duck boats proceeding cautiously

More often than not, the drivers tend to proceed fairly cautiously, though I will grant that a few of them probably go a little faster than necessary sometimes. I will say that they do an awful lot of horn honking when they spy pedestrians, etc., so there's that at least.

They're also not the only motor vehicles that use the trail there. I've seen quite a few law enforcement, construction, and other vehicles using the path in the past. But yes, the duck boats are the most frequent. I would agree that it's too bad we can't use a separate path, but that doesn't change the fact that we have to anyway.

Re: WWII

Guess you'll just have to come on a duck boat tour and find out how well they did yourself, eh?

Nah, I'll give you a freebie. They were used a lot for troop and supply transports during WWII, Korea, and Vietnam until helicopters made them obsolete for supply transportation. They were very important for the Sicily and Normandy landings, among other battles.

P.S. I've totally been plugging Bike PGH, Bike Fest, etc. on my tours. So consider that my olive branch for using the North Shore Trail.

They're also not the only motor vehicles that use the trail there. I've seen quite a few law enforcement, construction, and other vehicles using the path in the past. But yes, the duck boats are the most frequent. I would agree that it's too bad we can't use a separate path, but that doesn't change the fact that we have to anyway.

yeah, no doubt, not pointing the finger at ducky, just that there was a blank slate where they could have done anything that they wanted there before they built the northshore complex.

Yeah. The whole shared-use nature of that area is a mess. Try biking through there on a Pirates game day. If I ride on the road, some asshat honks at me and yells "get off the road". If I ride on the "trail", some asshat yells at me to get on the road.

Back when the Duck Boats first started touring downtown they used the Mon wharf down the by Smithfield Street Bridge too, but I guess that didn't work out. I always thought it would be cooler if they entered the rivers at one point and exited in another rather than the loop they do now (or at least did the last time I saw on the water).

Although the photo above looks like the wharf now that I think of it.

That picture is from the wharf. We still use it when anything is stopping us from using the North Side (i.e. game day traffic, special events, constructions, etc.). The wharf isn't as interesting an experience, though. With the North Side, you get closer to the stadiums and see a lot more on the water.

@JZ: Try giving a tour in Pirates traffic. You only get honked at here and there, but you have to come up with a good half hour of material out of nowhere. I share your pain (kind of not really).

I've always thought the Ducky tours were wicked awesome, those vehicles are just neat. What would be super cool would be if those vehicles weren't just used for tourists, but like a combo bus/ferry kind of thing during rush hour. But I like ferries, and any vehicle that approximates them. Especially if quacking is involved.

That's it!

That is the solution to the "ring the bell," "on your left" conundrum.

Instead of alarming unsuspecting walkers and weavers with a well-intentioned "ding-ding," how about an assertive "quack-quack!"

The duck things are fine... I always try to wave. I just wish they didn't make their customers quack, it feels just a bit creepy.

seriously! all those people riding by in that amphibious monstrosity, with their fun and their smiles, interrupting my "me time" is bad enough. must they quack at me, too? it's bad enough when ducks do it, now i have to contend with duck boats, too?

well they could be shooting at you, as the vehicle originally intended...

@HiddenVariable: Don't hate on the ducks. All they want is bread crumbs and happiness. If you're going to hate on anyone, hate on the Canada geese. WAY too many of them on that trail.

...And in general.

Uggh, the Canada geese, those are a whole different thing. Handsome, but gross and disgusting, like some people I have known.

Does anybody know what the law might be re; eating those things? The geese, I mean?

On occasion, the DER will round up a whole flock of geese and can them, after testing the meat for pesticides and whatnot. I am more concerned about what they eat, than what the law would be about eating them.

@VD:

Yeah, clearly the geese are the least socially acceptable trail users.

I quite like the actual ducks, the ones with feathers and wings. Usually if you throw breadcrumbs at them they go quiet, but it also attracts all their friends. The geese and I have always gotten along fairly well as well.

I'd suggest throwing bread at the Duckies to get the passangers to stop quacking if it really bothers you (I think it's cute, but I'm like that), though then you might attract additional vehicles with quacking passangers if the parallel holds true, and the trail could get clogged.

As long as you follow the laws with regards to hunting season, weapon use, and animal abuse, I see no reason why _trying_ to eat them wouldn't be legal. Succeeding might break some Physical Law of Dentistry, or introduce chemicals you don't want to consume into your digestive tract, but personal responsibility must start somewhere.

edited to add: the preceeding paragraph was concerning the feathered, winged ducks, not the vehicles or quacking passangers.

If you're going to hate on anyone, hate on the Canada geese. WAY too many of them on that trail.

oh, believe me, i do. but at least they have the civility to be openly hostile. they hiss at me, and i hiss back. none of this oh-we're-so-happy-why-don't-we-quack-at-passersby business.

I'm thinking that to the extent they eat natural food, canadian geese are a good indicator of a healthy ecosystem.

To the extent they live from handouts (which is most of those by the river, I think) they are like pigeons only larger and dirtier.

asobi, that comic is amazing. What's it from?

Ducks rule. They are second only to herons: Not as clumsy or random as a duck, but a more elegant waterfowl from a more civilized age.

To the extent that Canadian Geese don't go the eff back to Canada in the summer anymore, they're indicative of our superior welfare state and the world's greatest health care system. Or maybe it's McDonald's.

@alnilam: If you click on the comic, you'll see where it's from.

a more elegant waterfowl from a more civilized age.

@alnilam: Octopus Pie. It's a very good webcomic.

...herons: Not as clumsy or random as a duck, but a more elegant waterfowl from a more civilized age.

hear hear! i saw a bittern the other day. they're like the forever-innocent younger cousin that's come to visit from the city, always stirring up trouble for the poor beleaguered heron.

@alnilam - nice Episode IV reference

I'm getting all warm and fuzzy thinking about all the waterfowl ... but when I have happened across these vehicles, I've had to yield to them or risk getting run over even when I'm riding on the right-hand side of the trail where I should be. Cops and other commercial vehicles usually stop or slow to a crawl and wave me past them -- not so with the ducks.

Since the trail is for pedestrians and cyclists and the infrequent emergency or construction vehicle, I'm not sure why anyone should have to yield to a commercial vehicle engaged in a profit-making venture -- regardless of the feel-good nature of the enterprise.

A careful and perhaps cynical reading of the OP's message indicates these vehicles are old, prone to breakage, have poor sightlines and aren't maneuverable. In addition, it sounds like the "captains" drive the vehicles so as to "hog up the sidewalk." Those aren't my words -- they were written by the author.

So we're second-class roadway users (to motor vehicles) and now we're second-class trail users (next to the ducks)?

I encounter maybe one duck boat per year. On the other hand, I ride through goose poop every day.

I don't even like eating goose, or I'd probably just grab one, wring its neck, and take it home.

Only slightly off topic, but this morning on the north shore trail, on the other side of peggy's harbor, there was a gaggle of dpw guys working on some of the huge potholes in the trail with a backhoe. The were taking up the whole trail, but when my wife and I got to that section, they stopped what they were doing, backed out the backhoe to let us pass.

I was actually quite surprised thinking they would make us ride back and go up to beaver and around.

Great news about the holes -- I've been calling and emailing 311 for the past two months or so about the overgrowth of the trees and weeds, the fenceposts that jut into the trail at helmet level and the gigantic holes where the trail should be. The holes are an accident waiting to swallow up a child or other careless or unknowing rider, skater or pedestrian.

Kudos to DPW and their employees: anytime I've encountered them (and less frequently spoken to them) they've been friendly, stopped what they were doing and waved me on my way.

@surlyjason: I'm a cyclist myself (or I wouldn't really be here in the first place), so I am sympathetic. I only said "hogging up" because they're very wide vehicles. We try to stay closer to whichever side pedestrians happen to be on at that given moment (typically we stick closer to the water side). I know that I'd personally just move off the path for the few moments they pass by. I can't fathom trying to drive around them.

I'm not trying to cover up the fact that they are clunkers, so your analysis of my speech was pretty accurate. But in their defense, they are only on the path for a few minutes every hour and a half or so.

I feel obligated to point out that it is insanely harmful to the local ecosystem when any waterfowl are fed, short of pets.

The problem is so bad in North Park for example that there are dead zones around the "feeding pier"

because of the huge amount of waste that the waterfowl put into the water.

It is really fun to feed ducks, as they are very cute, but you have to realize that you may be sentencing them to death by feeding them. This is because feeding overrides their natural inclination to migrate when food becomes scarce and they consequently freeze or starve to death the following winter.

Feeding ducks is bad um'kay?

Schenley plaza has a flock of obese, one winged or one legged pigeons that have zero fear of humans. People there can't help feeding them. I wish I had a little pamphlet I could hand them explaining that feeding wild animals is bad. I've seen people feed better part of their lunch to the little birds there, and they eat so much the damn things fall over sideways when they try and fly off.

Phun Phact: From what I understand, pigeons are doves that were bred for eating, nearly as long ago as the dawn of agriculture. Just sayin. Why are we sitting here when we could be eating squab?

And yes, don't feed animal-duckies.

P.S. Does anyone know if the north side trail was designed to handle motor vehicle traffic at all? I know the sidewalk area in point park that was recently redone is already starting to break, and the company that made it threw up their hands and said something like, "You asked us to design it for peds and bikes, and then you went and drove DPW trucks on it every other day; what do you expect?"

I'd probably just grab one, wring its neck, and take it home.

Oh, I am SO going to record that for America's Funniest Videos. What could possibly go wrong?

This is because feeding overrides their natural inclination to migrate when food becomes scarce and they consequently freeze or starve to death the following winter.

If this were true, surely there wouldn't be so damn many of them, right?

Why are we sitting here when we could be eating squab?

Because they're probably loaded with pesticides. Also, they're Real Slow Food. There's so little meat on them, you are hungrier after dinner than when you started.

i ran a bike program all summer down on the trail and i almost saw so many kids get a ducky-death... it was scary... about half the drivers were out for blood and half were fine on the trail... i saw a couple misses by just inches throughout the summer

Am I the only one who sees the irony in all these calls to "get those damn birds off my trail"? sounds a little too similar to "get these damn bikes off my road" for my comfort. Maybe the birds need an advocacy organization?

I'm with you on that one, Todd... you wanna bike next to a river, hello, you might encounter some waterfowl!

@salty

At least two groups I know of work on uh, pro-geese advocacy:

Humane Options Pittsburgh (HOP!) *on Facebook*

Voices for Animals (less recommended due to conflicts with my personal ideology)

http://www.vfaonline.org/

I meant that to be um... tongue in beak? but good that someone is looking out for the geese.

I too rode with kids on the trail this summer. We

had a group of 10-20 kids almost daily. The boats

would not yield to the kids, would not stop, and

the ducky people were jerks when we emailed them

with our concerns.

Mark this post, somebody is going to get hurt or

killed, and it is probably going to be a kid.