BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Sounds like you are already basically doing the right thing, there's not much else you can do aside from using the brakes. Try to use both brakes pretty equally as long as you don't lock the rear wheel. Going over the bars isn't much of a concern until it gets really steep, but instead of leaning back you can slide all the way off the back of the saddle and actually get your butt behind and below it.

Zigzagging is definitely not too practical and would be hard to get much benefit from in the width of a traffic lane, you'd need to make really sharp turns.

Heat buildup might be an issue on really long descents if you have rim brakes, but probably not on the hills you mentioned - it's more when you're descending miles at a time. But, you may want to give your brakes a chance to cool down - slow way down (keeping cars behind you in mind of course) and then coast back up to your comfortable speed, instead of applying the brakes every few feet.

Good question!

On such hills, I've been braking continuously and staying at a relatively low speed. But I haven't been switching to a higher gear, since I'm not pedaling, only braking. Is it important to do that? How would the gear matter when the bike's freewheeling?

Steven, it doesn't matter until you start to pedal again. If you're in a low gear (because you just came over the top of a big hill), you'll push the pedals and flail around and then have to change up, or maybe your foot will slip off the pedal. It's just awkward, shaky and sloppy. Maybe there's a light at the bottom of the hill, it's getting stale and you decide that instead of braking, you're going to make it, so you start to pedal but you're in the wrong gear, you futz around and shift up, but the light is changing and now it's too late to stop in time...

It's a good idea to stay in the right gear for the speed the bike is going.

Makes sense, thanks.

I usually stand up and lean back. I don't brake much if it is a straight hill, but if there are curves and I can't see too far in front of me, I am leery about just bombing a hill. I don't react to surprises well or quickly so I will ride my brakes. On hills like sycamore, I would rather ride up than down, because steep hills still make me nervous after 4 years of riding in the city. But time and experience will help you get more comfortable. And the zig zag thing you mentioned - I think people will do that if they have a hard time going straight up a hill.

TIP: avoid braking and cornering at the same time.

You don't necesarily need to shift to a high gear on a downhill unless you are some kind of nutjob who wants to see how fast you can go down (heh, heh).

In fact, if there is another climb that starts immediately after the downhill, as happens often around here, I try to shift to a low gear for the climb while I'm still on the downhill. Saves tons of gear crunching.

On downhills, just get your pedals in a comfortable position, take a little weight off your seat to cushion bumps, slide back a little, brake gently and continuously with both brakes, and don't get going too fast in the first place. There aren't long enough downhills around here to worry about overheating brakes. Don't zig-zag.

Also, learn which hand operates which brake! If run into some dirt or gravel, brake with the back brake only, if you have to stop fast on dry pavement, use more front. Practice braking with alternate hands and see how the bike behaves, and practice hard emergency braking so you are conditioned when you need it.

Shifting down has nothing to do with safety. It allows you to be prepared for the next time you pedal but often as not around here you'll hit a stop or another hill.

Primarily you want to look ahead for obstacles and stay relaxed. The biggest mistake you can make is to tense up as it really ruins your handling skills which then exacerbates the situation.

Use the rear brake to moderate speed and both brakes to really actually stop. You can also air brake yourself by staying upright.

No one zigzags down hill. You do that up hill to make the grade easier.

Having relatively large tires (700X38) and strong wheels makes me feel more secure going fast down hills. Still, I occasionally get an image of hitting a pothole and having the wheel taco, leaving me as roadkill. (If I die on a bike, please, please, PLEASE don't let any christian preacher say words for me. Thanks)

Don't worry. I think they are all leaving today. That's what I hear anyway.

Stay calm, watch the road for hazards and apply your brakes. Your bike actually wants to stay upright all by itself and could probably make it down a hill without you if it could steer itself away from the curb. Keep yourself at a comfortable speed, watch out for obstacles, and you'll be fine.

Don't zig zag, as its way easier to flip if you happen to be traveling diagonally.

what chris said.

stay loose: if you post up just a tiny bit (stand up just above the saddle while pedaling, staying in your tuck if you want speed) it will allow your arms and legs to act as suspension if the surface is less than perfect.

look ahead: looking right in front of you for obstacles is one of the biggest mistakes people make. you won't have enough time to react. look well ahead of you and use your peripheral vision to check off already noted obstacles as you pass them.

I find that, in addition to using my brakes to keep from accelerating to uncomfortable speeds, descending comfortably down hills is greatly enhanced by shouting "WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

Or singing at the top of my lungs. Often helps lighten the mood in general - fake it till you feel it kind of thing.

Oh - and as I've been hauling more and more groceries lately, I've noticed that if the load I'm carrying is not centered, I will get some crazy scary wobble above certain speeds (HA only achievable down long steep roads like Verona Rd off Frankstown). So I stay slower. Not sure if the weight is causing it, or exaggerating something otherwise unnoticeable but in need of adjustment on the bike, but there it is. If it happened on an unloaded bike or at speeds I'm comfortable going normally, I'd wig out and take it to the shop pronto. So if you're hauling stuff around a lot, your load/packing could come in to play.

@ejwme http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/shimmy.html

Adding weight makes it happen at different speeds as you change the resonant frequency of the bike.

Chris - nice, thank you! I was beginning to think I'd have to take a spring scale with me to the grocery store to balance properly. It's funny that my exact gut reaction to it is the opposite of helpful - I tend to grip hard and sit hard when it happens, I'll try unweighting the seat though it may not make much of a difference with the groceries. Comforting to know it's neither me nor my bike, but physics.

But Rina - in all seriousness, as you get more experienced, you'll find you're more comfortable going down hills faster and faster. Just do what feels safest (keeping in line with what people on here say is usually a very safe bet), and keep riding. When I started I was petrified of a few hills that I now look forward to, and shout "Wheee" the whole way down. Gives the neighbors a chuckle, and it's good for the soul.

Yeah, get off the saddle and clamp the top tube with your legs. It might be worth redistributing the weight too. If you go faster or slow than the wobble range it will go way. Gripping hard makes it way worse.

a form of shimmy can also be caused by having the weight distributed to one side of the bike, especially on a rough road.

I find that, in addition to using my brakes to keep from accelerating to uncomfortable speeds, descending comfortably down hills is greatly enhanced by shouting "WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

I'm so glad I'm not the only one.

RE: the shimmy. If you are really, really, really bored, search the BOB (Bridgestone Owners Bunch) list archives for said shimmy. There have been many, many long discussions about the source of it, and how some bike designs are better than others.

I don't mean to complicate things, but try to use your brakes intermittently to reduce brake fade. I've gotten a flat from an overheated rim, but that was fully loaded on a long descent while touring... not as much of a factor commuting.

@ejwme "WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

I'm more of a "YEE-HAW!" guy myself.

I love how ejwme's WHEEEEE runs off the edge of the screen.

For Rina - I'm sure that basic personality is some of it, but the ratio of ecstasy to panic from brakeless descents rises with one's experience and self-assurance.

FWIW, it's about 90 seconds on Federal from Lafayette to North Avenue, about a 320-foot drop. Wheeeee indeed.