BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

I spoke with Commander Dengler (sp?) of Zone 4 about flagrant, maddingly, seconds late red-light running on Penn Ave. I asked her about citing drivers by mail given only a license-plate #. They have done this for crossing guards (who I believe are empowered to cite drivers directly, not sure why they don't). She was concerned that the driver himself needed to be identified (not entirely true) but I figure that even if the owner wants to go to court and argue "it wasn't me driving, it was someone else", there's an official legal record, and the owner is put on notice that society cares.

The reason I was emphasizing red-light running is that I think it's on a continuum with road rage. It's self-centered, bullying driving, motivated by a sense of entitlement and complete disregard for the rights (of way) of others. I would be willing to bet that the road ragers are also frequent red-light runners.

I think it'd be better to follow up with the citizens police review board. If the problem is that 911 and the police are unwilling to get involved, then why would creating more bureaucracy help?

Red light running is ridiculous in the city. If a cop sat at 21st and liberty and wrote down license plates all day, they would pay for one months salary easily by the end of the week.

Long term, I believe the city should continue with their "road diets." Limiting excess flow is just as critical an issue as easing congestion, from an operation and maintenance perspective.

Incidentally, I was heading outbound to monroeville on second avenue last night when penn hills cop car #39 passed me. I was going 40. Seeing as how second avenue isn't a four lane road passed 10th street and they passed me on the right at a pretty high rate, curiosity got the better of me and I decided to follow.

Dude was traveling 60 mph, then in excess of 80 mph on 376 all the way to the Penn Hills exit.

Any way we could have a "town hall" meeting to talk about this with police, traffic engineers, Steve Patchen, and other people with in the city. Hey maybe even get some of the road ragers to come. I think everyone needs a better understanding of whats going on.

Something needs to be done.

Red light running is ridiculous in the city. If a cop sat at 21st and liberty and wrote down license plates all day, they would pay for one months salary easily by the end of the week.

So is running stop signs. Recently, there's been a squad car near Martha and Chislett Streets in Morningside, and at least twice a week I see someone pulled over for running that stop sign.

eep, i run that stop sign at least once a week (on a bike).

The frustrating thing is, they pull people over for running stop signs slowly but not, all things considered, dangerously. But they seem to ignore the very aggressive and flagrant red-light running. Maybe because stop-sign running is about 100%: never any waiting. Whereas you do have to wait a couple of minutes for the light to turn red before you can nail someone for running it.

Road rage: We bicyclists are suceptible to it, too. Or at least *I* am. I suspect I'm not alone.

To me that is a problem that is as difficult to deal with as the conventional 4-wheeled rage is.

Mick

Road rage: We bicyclists are suceptible to it, too. Or at least *I* am. I suspect I'm not alone.

Yes. Thanks for this, Mick. My first few years commuting were filled with me yelling and screaming and generally getting in drivers' faces. Then, I mellowed out considerably. In the past four or so years, I've noticed that I have fewer incidents with vehicles. Maybe I'm lucky, but I suspect it has to do with the fact that:

1. I act a whole lot more like traffic.

2. If someone does honk/yell/drive too close, I just keep riding.

I'm not saying that the incidents that folks have described on this board are the fault of the cyclist. I'm merely saying that my experiences as a commuter changed when my behavior on the road changed. I still make bad decisions on the bike sometimes, and I notice that those, too, contribute poorly to my experience, and to the experiences of other road users.

Road rage is really just a symptom of a greater cultural malaise (as Lyle hints at above). Better enforcement of existing traffic laws would help, but it only puts a bandage on a larger wound.

Sometimes, a wound needs a bandage to help it heal.

I just keep thinking of hint #7 on the Bike Pittsburgh membership card (no doubt cited elsewhere as well): "Stay calm if confronted by an angry driver. Remember, you're on your bike and having way more fun than they are."

I like to think the person saying that emphasizes it, stretching it out saying "waaaay more fun" because honestly, riding a bike is fun.

I certainly agree there's a bright line division between honking and annoying comments on the one side and aggressive driving or other dangerous behavior on the other, but so long as a run-in is in the low-consequences category (which the majority of my already rare "incidents" are) I'm getting better at smiling back at the driver and laughing to myself.

I honestly laugh or make fun of the people who honk or do something silly, it's when that same person decides to pass me at 35mph way too close.

The other day is a great example, I am in Squirrel Hill on Forbes in between Murray and Shady. Pretty well trafficked area, riding about 18-20mph when the girl behind me passes me. I just rode behind her basically on her bumper smiling and stopping at the Shady light with her. How silly!

But on that same trip I got buzzed by two cars while I was going about 30 about to cross the bridge before Braddock. I was PISSED.

Steve P told me that if you call 311 and report road rage the city will follow up

"Steve P told me that if you call 311 and report road rage the city will follow up."

Has anyone actually done this? Does it do any good? Or is it just a place to vent? I feel mildly dirty about ratting people out, but today, as I'm doing 30+ mph down Beeler (already 5 over the limit), some tool in a green Benz decides he/she HAS to pass me - right in the "kink". At that point I'm basically on the centerline in order to take the turn, so they're completely in the other lane to do it. Then of course they proceed to cut in front of me and slam on their brakes because of the car in front of me that they probably couldn't see. Unfortunately I didn't get the plate number.

I guess it's not "road rage" as much as ignorance and stupidity, but there's no way someone pulls that crap if there's a car doing 30mph or even 20mph.

I haven't heard a peep since my road rage incident this past summer. If Steve wants to follow up it's report #09214948. Crazy man plate# YCF 6605.

Cops love running red lights, too. They just pop on their lights and roll right through. Can't say it appears they're on their way to anything important, since they're driving normally before and afterward.

salty, that sort of thing happens to me all the time when as I take Liberty Ave almost every day. When there is snow on the ground I take the lane and sometimes just do when I feel like going fast. I distinctly remember one day a woman passing me and barely being able to pass me on the left because I was going to fast. I looked over at her almost like we were in slow motion and she was furious, waving at me to get in the bike lane but yet she could barely get around me.

I don't know what can be done about road rage without proof.