BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Scary. Glad he is ok. I wonder if anyone is going to be charged.

From what I read below, it appears to have happened in Spain. No discussion regarding the driver but I will update if I find something.

Leipheimer Injured in Bike Accident

Press Release: Levi Leipheimer was hit from behind by a car while alone on a training ride in Pais Vasco. Levi suffered soreness and swelling to his lower left leg. He was transported to the hospital where an echo was performed. No broken bones were found, and there is hope that the injury is just a muscle contusion to his left calf.

Due to the injury, Leipheimer will not start Vuelta Ciclista al Pais Vasco tomorrow. Other examinations will be done once he arrives in California tomorrow. Levi will return to training depending on how his clinical situation evolves.

"I was kind of in shock, you know," Leipheimer said. "The bottom line is it was super scary and I am lucky to be alive. I'd also like to add that the team has been really supportive. The doctor here took great care of me, Ro, who handles all our travel did a great job at making sure I get home really early, and I've received good messages from the team. I'm really thankful for that."

So was he was wearing his Road ID?

@John obviously. he's alive isn't he?

More details on this post, received via Twitter:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/04/news/leipheimer-i-could-be-dead-for-sure_211934

Hm-m-m, old person hit LL from behind. I've work with the woman who took car keys from her uncle saying: "You are going to kill yourself and other people. You are old (85 yo) so you've lived your life. think about youngsters you are going to take with you!" She did it after she noticed that uncle is driving using right solid lane as a guidance and taking every exit on highways and swerving back into traffic. She promised to drive him when he needs it. Somehow her uncle agreed to it. Other than this I knew one only one woman and one man who voluntarily gave up cars.

"The doctor here took great care of me"

LL: "We are always taking our lives into risk when we ride the bike. But the older you get, the more you’ve seen people get hurt or worse, you’re more aware of those things. I have those thoughts more and more. That’s why you always have to ride with a helmet, with ID. You have to be careful all the time. I think I will start riding with a light during the day."

@Mikhail: Other than this I knew one only one woman and one man who voluntarily gave up cars.

+1 Mikhail, that resonated with me. I know more people that have given up smoking or drinking than gave up cars.

So, here's a question coming from a moderate vehicular cyclist, keying on LL's "I think I will start riding with a light during the day" (via quizbot).

We have a social norm for slow-moving vehicles on public roadways roadways; bulldozers, Amish buggies, and horse-drawn carriages in cities all comply.

Should (shouldn't) bicycles be marked as slow-moving vehicles? And seriously and with no disrespect - I'm not trolling here - Is it reasonable to protest being overtaken and struck if they're not marked as a slow-moving vehicle?

No offense intended. Cheers, V.

Lights wouldn't have helped Levi but I almost always ride with lights on.

Is it reasonable to protest being overtaken and struck if they're not marked as a slow-moving vehicle?

Yes. There are many things on or near the public roads that are slower than most automotive traffic (children, delivery trucks, and un-helmeted convenience stores, for example), and are not commonly marked with triangles.

I'd find it tough to argue that it's unacceptable to hit fast things, and it's unacceptable to hit stationary things, and it's unacceptable to hit slow things _with_ a triangle, but it's okay to hit slow things _without_ a triangle.

But hey, I'm a judgmental old fart who sees things in black and white.

Are there times when bicycles are mistaken for fast moving vehicles? A bicycle in itself is kind of a defacto indicator that it's a slow moving vehicle.

And in the city, I might add, slow probably means, going the speed limit or slightly below

my grandfather gave up driving before he died. he was still pretty decent at it too, he just got too stressed out behind the wheel, and opted to leave it to others.

my grandmother... she should give up driving. She refuses to drive at night, or anywhere she hasn't been going for the past 20 years. The thing she struggles with is not the day to day - watch the mirrors, keep eyes scanning and focused on the road, signal turns, be predictable. The thing she struggles with is anything unexpected - closed roads, short term construction, etc. Unfortunately, a cyclist in her neighborhood is unexpected unless it has streamers and is on a sidewalk.

To her, and to decades of people younger than her, the vehicle is part of independence, of being an adult. Giving it up, while safer for all road users if one isn't as capable as one used to be, means no longer being independent, and to a certain extent no longer being an "adult". Her only transportation alternative is Access, which she claims is impossible to plan for (coming hours late, abandoning her without warning, etc). So giving up her car but maintaining independence means selling her house, moving to an area she doesn't know at all (and, thanks to real estate price differentials, also getting rid of most of her possessions), and learning a transportation system that is confusing AND disappearing, at best.

I'm not excusing people who are physically incapable of driving of continuing to put themselves and other road users in danger. I'm just saying we haven't exactly set our society up for success at aging gracefully. We almost couldn't have done worse, actually.

*sigh* Access goes away with transit this September for nearly everyone not in an old, built-up area. And her scenario is going to be repeated manymanymanymanymany times, this year and in coming years, as aging boomers pay off the mortgage in the suburban tract home and have no way to get anywhere other than to drive until they cannot or should not.

I really don't understand why more people aren't horrified and outraged by the lack of options for older people to get around. Least of all themselves, actually. It doesn't even appear that they've noticed just how bad their situation is. As the most reliable voter group and with organizations like AARP, you'd think we could actually get some traction if those groups took on the issue of safe and convenient mass transit.

@Vannevar, last month I was almost hit at Station Square from a guy who rolled a stop sign. The driver keep apologizing saying “I didn’t see you” while I stood in the middle of the intersection in my class II bright green neon construction vest and daytime front blinkie (yes I am a geek). The odd thing is I believe him – he was scared shitless when I punched the side of his SUV. And the driver behind him got out of his car and ran over because he thought for sure that I was under the wheels when he heard the thump.

So I’ll gladly wear a triangle if the SOB who hits me goes to jail instead of being let loose ala flip-flop boy. I agree with your logic, but it just doesn’t work.

Yeah. I think the people who pay attention and are generally good drivers already see you. It's the people who aren't paying attention that you have to worry about. What do you do about them? Proximity air horns?

Tabby, it would require some unpleasant realizations - for people to accept without shame that their reaction times, sight, strength, and focus may not be what they once were. It's the same reason people live in the homes they've spent their lives paying off and fixing up "just so" long after their joints and strength are suited to the flights of stairs between the bedroom and the washer. I do have one set of grandparents who gleefully moved to a 55+ community to enjoy condo-association rides to grocers and doctors visits. Not even everybody with the means is willing to do so.

They spent their lives and all their energy getting things just the way they want. They don't want to think about not being able to enjoy the fruits of 60 odd years of labor, sacrifice, and waiting for some golden years to arrive.

Again, not excusing it. Just... really frustrated at the fact that so many people are working so hard for so long to achieve a position that will cause them so much physical and mental pain (white picket American Dream). Gramma deserves better, and I can't convince her of it.

Even more distressing is that for every "gramma" there's several of ME, and we STILL can't fix it.

Is it reasonable to protest being overtaken and struck if they're not marked as a slow-moving vehicle?

Absolutely. I would counter that question with "Is it reasonable to protest being overtaken and struck if they are marked as a slow-moving vehicle?" The vehicle's markings have nothing to do with it. A driver is either paying full attention to his surroundings, or not. No vehicle marking is likley to change that, unless the triangle is brightly lit, flashing, and shooting off fireworks. And even at that, 50/50 odds at best that the driver sees it.

Yeah. I think the people who pay attention and are generally good drivers already see you. It's the people who aren't paying attention that you have to worry about. What do you do about them? Proximity air horns?

this might be the best idea ever.

What do you do about them? Proximity air horns?

this might be the best idea ever.

Those semi-mythical self driving cars would be the best friend a person on a bike could have. Proximity detectors and intelligence designed to move the car around other objects without the active participation of the people inside the vehicle.

Wtih people driving -even if they are attentive as possible and are considerate of bicycles - there will always be at least the occasional death of a cyclist from an auto.

No the vast majority of thsoe deaths are from ("no charges were filed") criminal negligence, both on the part of drivers and traffic enforcement officials.

But even without that criminal driving and negligent traffic enforcement, there would be few deaths.