BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

It's not insoles, but I added a set of knee savers to widen my pedals a bit; made a huge diff in knee comfort for me.

Lemme know if you want to borrow a pair and see how they feel.

I was reading about this yesterday, Width was mentioned. as was crank arm length, possibly shortening your crank arms might help.

Riding with the seat too low is the most common cause of knee pain. Hopefully you have checked that? I haven't had any knee problems (knock), but when I see someone riding with no knee extension, it hurts just watching.

I've been having some front-of-knee pain, so decided to check my seat height using the Lemond formula, which is derived by taking the measurement of your pubic bone height to the floor & multiplying that by .883 (PBH is not the same as your pants inseam. get a thin book, wedge it in your crotch till you hit bone, measure from top of book to the floor). The result is used as the measurement from the center of your bottom bracket to top of saddle along the downtube. It's a good starting point, but you may need to adjust by a cm or two. My seat height was + 1.5 cm of the formula, so I dropped my saddle 1 cm yesterday... 25 miles later, not feeling the knee pain.

"get a thin book, wedge it in your crotch till you hit bone..."

I recommend the book "Arguing with Idiots" by Glen Beck. Then throw it out.

I fight various aches and pains and debate going to a fit expert all the time.

Knee pain is usually related to seat position and it's hard to nail down and test. Some good suggestions so far.

Knee pain in order of most likely causes (for people new to pedal bindings, IME):

(1) pushing too big a gear, too soon in the season, without a solid mileage base already.

(2) cleat alignment

(3) seat position

(4) float

(5) "Q" factor

(6) knock-knees or bowlegs

(7) unequal leg length (but likely to cause hip or saddle problems first)

Insoles can help with 6 or 7. I'd be more inclined to recommend them for foot pain, eg, if you have very high arches.

If you have lots of experience with clipless pedals but suddenly encounter new knee pain, then the order is 1324567

I've tried a bunch of seat position adjustment (although never to the formula, if 1.5cm can make a difference it might be worth a shot). I got some advice on cleat alignment, I don't have knock-knees or bowlegging or anything like that. I got the insole advice from a guy at Trek, told him what was going on and he said that hes seen amazing results fixing knee trouble by getting a good pair of insoles.

Its basically if I ride 30+ miles I feel pressure inside my outer knee. Granted I haven't ridden that distance since last summer, but I'm getting back to distance riding, so we'll see.

Really? The guy at Trek told you he's seen amazing results from a product he was selling?

Get a proper bike fit first (it is worth paying for). Then start working on the small stuff.

BTW, post #46 is what I use and recommend to clients:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1163166;page=1;mh=-1;;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC

(the pic at the top is a handy reference)

I just got my first bike fitting @ UPMC a few weeks back, and the guy recommended in-soles. After only a couple of weeks, I can't imagine riding without them.

I was getting a fair amount of pain in my knees, shoulder blades and shoulder blades after riding 20 miles or more. (Getting bad enough that around 30 miles I would have to stop for the day. ) And to top it off, numbness in my feet after about 10 miles. I mostly blamed this on my age and all my years of being out of shape.

But, post-fitting, all that was gone... and I feel like I have much more control over my bike. The fitting itself involved some minor corrections as well as the purchase of insoles (and wedges) and a shorter stem.

Overall well worth the money.

myddrin, who did you call to setup an appointment?

I emailed Matthew Tinkey and setup the appointment through him. I'm not 100% sure where I got his email address from, but I think it was from this page.

If it's not there, you can send me a private message and I'll get it to you. (Since I can't recall how I got his email address, I'm not comfortable posting it in a public forum.)

UPMC fit it is. I'm pretty much in the same boat you were in pre-fitting, myddrin. Short rides aren't a problem, but the pain would come on very fast and soon put me out of commission.

Also, Matt's email address is posted on the article you linked to at the bottom

Current link for those interested: http://www.upmc.com/Services/sportsmedicine/services/performance/Pages/cycling-performance.aspx

didn't know UPMC did this. Thx for the tip!

Scott has a blog post about his experience. Bike PGH members get a discount I believe.

Just found this article on the intertubes. Doesn't give any kind of statistics about relative rates of injury causes, but pretty much reinforces the collective wisdom of the group...

http://www.cptips.com/knee2.htm

Had my bike fitting at UPMC today, Matt Tinkey set me up. I was pretty well dialed in, but we dropped my seat by 1 cm, and slid my cleats back about 1.5 cm to bring my knees in line with the pedal axles when cranks are horizontal. Twisted my hoods inward a cm or so as well, which already feels more natural in the few miles I got in after the fitting. Also got a few tapered wedges under the cleats. Anxious to see how the knees & low back are feeling after I get some miles in this week.

my husband keeps urging me to make an appt at the clinic. I am gonna do it before the MS.

I work in orthopaedics, and front of the knee pain is caused by weak quads or putting too much pressure on the underside of the patella (kneecap). adjusting seat height and quad strengthening may help. pain on the outside of the knee may be a reflection of an ITB problem. sometimes runners get "runners knee", and cyclists can get it as well. i did the century option one year and the next day i was having terrible lateral knee pain. stretching helped that.

i appreciate the links to the UPMC clinic.

If you're planning on getting in before the ms150, I'd contact matt asap. He does the clinics very part time, so the schedule is hit or miss.