BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10122/1054515-109.stm

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10122/1054515-109.stm

"Ready for my suggestion? Try two lanes of Fifth Avenue from Bigelow in Oakland all the way to the intersection at Penn Avenue."

Does Bob read this board? Bob? Are you there?

BF you beat me!

only place that'll ever happen:)

Ha!

BTW, ALMKLM, great article, thanks for the notice.

But wait til the entitled SUV drivers start flaming this guy.

Perhaps some emails of thanks are in order to Firth.

Bob, are your there?

He's pushing cycle tracks. Which isn't surprising, he's a "design professional". They only get paid for successfully agitating change -- change of any kind, valuable or not doesn't matter.

But cycle-tracks are only a new idea for Pittsburgh, they've been done to death elsewhere, and

they have their own problems:

However, despite riders' perception that cycle tracks provide increased safety, research indicates that cycle tracks may actually cause a rise in certain types of collisions. In particular, cycle tracks may increase bicyclist-vehicle and bicyclist-pedestrian crashes at intersections and junctions. Parked cars and other barriers used to separate cycle tracks from traffic may cause reduced visibility at intersections and may make drivers less aware of the presence of bicyclists. Additionally, cyclists may have a false sense of security when using cycle tracks that may also make them less attentive to their surroundings (1).

Personally, I take issue with his claim that riding on the road, or in bike lanes is only suited for "the Spandex crowd."

With a little less tolerance for excessive speeding and aggressive driving, most of the city's surface streets would be suitable for the "non-Spandex crowd".

Pgh doesn't have much room for cycle tracks but we have a lot of streets suitable for bike boulevards and traffic calming.

A cycle track would be amazing for Fifth Ave in Oakland though or what actually may work is what they do in San Francisco where the bus stops are bump outs and bikes can continue traveling through in the bus/ bike lane.

Nice article though.

Yeah, on the "18 to 30 spandex crowd" comment, he was quoting someone else, so I'm letting him slide a little on that. If he himself had made that statement, I would have had to go all "irate-middle-aged-dude" on him. eh, I dunno, I reserve the right to still do that, depends on my ire.

"Take one lane of Fifth Avenue from Bigelow to Penn and curb it off permanently for biking and roller-blading."

I want to like this idea, but unless street sweepers patrol it like they do the regular lanes of the road, maybe I'll still be on the road to avoid broken glass and huge grit drifts. Skip the physical separation, if he wants to get radical just paint it and arrest any drivers who put a toe over the line (my two cents.)

Sounds like Bob's company has the contract with the city to provide wayfinding signage for bike routes?

Some good ideas, but I believe the city can make some small steps over 5 to 10 years for year round bike commuting:

First, is to provide the thoroughfares he speaks of in the summer to build fair weather usage and confidence in new riders during low maintenance weather.

Then, roll out pilot program on heavily travelled routes for winter maintenance. Will most likely require equipment purchasing and training of personnel.

Expansion and deployment of routes will depend entirely on usage, if the city administration and council support the process.

no his company is the one responsible for the colorful wayfinding signs that already exist on the streets. not the bicycle wayfinding thing that's coming up

Erok, what is the wayfinding project that's coming up?

Firth says a lot of good things. Schedules at bus stops? Yes! Make drivers respect pedestrians? Yes!

But he had me baffled when he labeled a bunch of nonsense "#1".

Rail trails are boring and segregated? Sure. So are freeways. Practical, though.

He says railtrails aren't part of everyday life? Well, maybe not not the Montour trail or the distant areas of the GAP.

I go downtown on the jail trail - that is a rail-trail Do business, etc. Business dinner at the Grand Concourse, then ride on home with the southside trail and hot metal, rail-trails. When Sadcastle gives it up, southside hipsters will get to the water front to buy their black clothes. Very practical.

Then down Firth's list he starts talking about Sunday street close-offs. A nice idea and all. But if you are pushing the business of integrating bikes into everyday life? Sunday street close-offs are - by definition - not part of it. Leave it out.

Mick

Sure, from a purely logical perspective Sunday Streets by definition does not integrate biking into everyday life. But in practice, from what I've read, it vitalizes biking culture in every city that it's been instituted. Someone who gets hooked on biking on Sundays is a whole lot more likely to become an advocate also for those who are out there 24/365, as well as a lot more sensitive when they get behind the wheel of a car. All of a sudden those crazy ass bikers aren't "other people".

@Mick +1 for using the think of rail/river trails as highways analogy. Very good point.

I do think the Jail Trail is a bit buggered and bland, but the South Side trail is better, it just might be slightly slower.

Pittsburgh has a lot of little-used and many even extinct road ROW's. I think many of these are screaming to become ped/bike paths. See my idea for completing the former Sylvan Ave. ROW in Greenfield as one:

http://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&t=h&msid=113038755676662691776.000485c71f63c0bf7b791&ll=40.422873,-79.949827&spn=0.015355,0.036564&z=15

The South Oakland trail near the Anderson Bridge Mick and I have been toying with also perhaps incorporates what we believe is the old Juno St. and Boundary St. ROW's. In all these cases they are now overgrown and naturalized, the only cue as to them being former streets is that they form relatively level paths through the wooded areas and hillsides. I think ROW's like this are prime candidates for bike paths, and I'm sure the city has an ample supply of former roads if the area around South Oakland and Greenfield has been any indication.

Another experiment in "new urbanism" is to preserve street grids in shape, but basically make more streets have dead ends to car access, but allow for ped and bike access through the grid. I have yet to really see this implemented anywhere in Pittsburgh, though one of the plans I read for South Oakland dated a few years ago called for doing something like this on certain roads.

Having more one-way roads could also improve cycling I think, by not removing resident's precious parking spaces, and allowing many city streets to be shared more friendly by bikes and cars.

Also, anyone know how to do a hyperlink shortcut?

Addendum: Standardize shoulder widths or the width of lanes in a two-way, two-lane road so that cars don't have to swerve wildly into the oncoming traffic lane. The shoulders on Schenley Drive are just spectacular. I wish every suburban road was like them, because if they were it wouldn't matter how hilly, windy they were, it would actually be FUN to bike on them.

Making a link:

[a href="http://example.com/my/link.html"]Click here![/a]

But with angle brackets (less-than and greater-than) instead of square brackets.

What is a ROW?

right of way?

impala26

i like the idea of a switchback to connect the junction hollow trail to swineburne. it would be amazing to also build a ramp down to access the eliza furnace trail, then we wouldn't have to hop over the active rail line to make this connection.

First off when I saw the name "Swinburne Switchback" in my head, I was resolved to map it out simply because of the sweet name and it seems like some connection of a sort is needed in that area. I'm not a big fan of switchbacks really, because they would seem a bit boring, but at the same time the only way to make certain bike connections in this city given the terrain.

As it stands right now, a path along the Sylvan Ave. ROW indeed doesn't seem like it would go anywhere. After seeing it firsthand I think it offers some spectacular views of Downtown and the South Side, so that has some merit. I also envision some sort of alternate route instead of Greenfield Ave., however I'm not sure how best to complete that alternate route as the only option after following the path would be ultimately Hazelwood Ave. which is basically as hilly and dangerous a road as Greenfield. Also, that intersection of the Swinburne Bridge and Greenfield Ave. is quite dangerous and would probably need some sort of signalization to make this trail viable as well.

I just don't know what to do about bike routes through Greenfield, but I think the Sylvan Ave. ROW could be useful and potentially linking to the Beechwood Blvd. bike lanes and Browns Hill Road. Something like this could be developed far faster I think than a trail with the Hazelwood redevelopment site.

I work at Mercy Hospital and I can see the Sylvan Ave cutting through the hillside from my office window. From here, it looks real streat and I thoughtabout going to go explore it.

Sylvan Ave. is a lot of fun to ride your mountain bike on. It's like a secret trail.

Yeah, "trails as highways" is something that a lot of people don't seem to get.

The jail trail is part of my daily commute. I use it because that's easier than taking roads, and it ends up being faster during rush hour, because I don't have to sit in traffic.

I tend to tool along it at ~15mph. I don't want to go faster than is accepted on the trail. OTOH, I'm really using it to get from A to B, so I don't enjoy getting stuck behind a group of three people riding abreast at ~8mph, or behind a bunch of wobbling pedestrians. Same problem multiplied by 100 on the north side trail.

I think that a big part of the problem is that some trail users are using it purely recreationally, and they just don't realize the totality of the usage pattern.

So, while I agree that Sunday closures might help increase general interest in biking, I'm not sure that they'd really make things any better for me, personally. Sundays aren't when I need to get to and from work, and I don't think that the people who would bike only on Sundays would really gain any insight into what the rest of us are doing day in and day out on the roads and trails.

Thinking about this old thread, now would be the time of year to start looking into untangling some of the overgrown trails we talked about above. It might be possible to hack our way through last year's dead stuff, before spring growth starts taking them over again.

Or maybe we just need a new thread.