BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

I cross posted this originally on another thread but today two Yahoo's with gas powered smaller than motorcycle bikes were riding fast on the Southside trail and mocked me when I signaled them to slow down. Hard to put on signs because there are zillions of access points... Would need a sign every 10 feet and they'll just be ignored. Also I don't mind electric skateboards, like the one with a huge center wheel. Those are less dangerous than regular runners running with headphones on with the volume so high they can't hear me screaming"on your left!!" to them. Ditto w battery powered e bikes as long as they're going a reasonable speed (15-16 mph and willing to slow down when the trail is crowded) Gas powered? No way.

I'm with Eric here. I see no reason to ban e-bikes, scooters, etc., so long as their operators behave themselves. As I've said in other such conversations, I can drive a Lamborghini down Grant Street in downtown Pittsburgh at 20-25 mph. Just because I have a high-speed mechanism to propel me at inappropriate speeds does not obligate me to use them. Ditto on gas-powered bikes. I don't drive my 250cc Suzuki motorcycle on trails, either. Rhetorical question: Is there any problem with pushing a gas-powered bike on a trail if the engine is off?

You can push an ox cart on the trail as long as you let people by. I'm on the trails all the time and the biggest annoyance are people that ride or run 2 or 3 abreast and don't move over to let people pass. The 2nd biggest annoyance are runners with music up so high that they don't hear anyone coming.

Gentlemen ... it's not a matter of other things being a bigger annoyance than e-bikes or other motorized vehicles. Unless the laws governing the trails has changed, motorized vehicles are not permitted on the trails.

That may be true but it is never enforced... The difference between stated law and actual practice. You could petition the PGH police to patrol. Or contact a city council person. or the mayor. Or get bikepgh interested. Once the trails leave Pittsburgh there are so many different police forces due to Western PA's model of a million small boros that it becomes impossible. I do see this as a Sisyphean task, though.

Ensuring there's a sign at every official trail access point doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I think the Montour Trail has a big one at every access point, or just about. The Friends of the Riverfront website has a map showing a grand total of 27 access points for all its trails, which is comparable to the Montour's count. Once there are signs, you can call 911 to report people disobeying them, and perhaps if complaints are frequent enough, they might dispatch an officer from time to time. I don't know of any laws specifically saying what's allowed on a trail. An organization that owns a trail usually sets its own rules, and I think folks arrested for repeatedly disobeying them get charged with trespassing. For the Montour, that's "No gas-powered vehicles, in accordance with the MTC’s Mode of Transport Policy. The only exceptions are approved powered mobility devices and e-bikes, emergency and police vehicles, and Trail maintenance equipment." For the GAP, that's "No vehicles powered by internal combustion. To accommodate disabled persons, electric wheelchairs and other electric mobility devices may be used, provided: Motors on electric vehicles are 750 watts or less; Vehicles weigh less than 100 lbs.; Vehicles are no more than 36" wide." I wasn't able to find any rules online for trails like the South Side or Chateau. I assume the city would have to set them, but I didn't find anything in Pittsburgh's municipal code or its website.

Unless the laws governing the trails has changed, motorized vehicles are not permitted on the trails.

Could you provide a reference to the law you are referring to? It looks like each trail has it's own rules and trail around PGH allows electrical vehicles with some speed limit.  

Interesting old thread http://localhost/message-board/topic/trail-rules/

Here's the extensive thread Motor Vehices on Trails from 2013: http://localhost/message-board/topic/motor-vehicles-on-trails/

Anything written in 2013 is ancient history in terms of e-bikes, be it stories or rules.  

The question of whether motorized vehicles are permitted on trails is complex.  Since federal funds were used in the construction of most trails, ADA regulations apply.  If a person feels that they are unable to use the facility without some sort of "mobility assist" they may use an appropriate device - hence the "vehicle parameters" you see on so many sets of regulations.  Enforcement is near impossible, as it would be hard to determine WHO would have the right to question a motor assist vehicle about the nature of their "need" for such assistance. The rise of E-bikes, scooters and other devices have further complicated the question of what is permitted, and by and for whom, no question.  

What about motorized wheelchairs?

Z, I don’t know of a legal objection to motorized wheelchairs on trails. My experience with them is that they don’t move all that fast, typical top speed is that of someone jogging. I would be less worried about the machine, and more about the logistical issues of getting help to someone stranded, either due to mechanical or medical issues.

News article: "Unlike most other states, electric scooters (which are motorized stand-up scooters with handlebars and a platform that riders stand on) are illegal in Pennsylvania. They don’t currently fit under any classification of the Pennsylvania Motor Vehicle Code, so while private versions can be seen zipping around some city streets, Pennsylvania cities don’t have the shareable e-scooters available in most other major U.S. cities. But Pittsburgh will soon have shareable e-scooters thanks to a provision written into the recently signed Pennsylvania budget bill. Pittsburgh has been granted a pilot program for scooter share... The pilot will last two years." https://www.pghcitypaper.com/pittsburgh/pittsburgh-to-get-e-scooter-pilot-program-thanks-to-provision-included-in-budget-bill/Content?oid=19764429