BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Heh, that is annoying.

yeah, riding on chesterfield, even down, is a pain

yeah Chesterfield is a bear anyway you cut it. If it were paved it would be tough enough.

so are we allowed to start making threads about all the things other cyclists do that piss us off now?

not sure its good for the "community"

but that said i have a giant list and it begins with someone regularly riding the wrong way up liberty in the bike lane.... its hard to tell if they are coming towards you when you are moving full speed ahead down that hill

I have never yelled, but I do find it quite embarrasing as a cyclist to see other cyclists (that have decent, proper gear, bike, kit, etc) riding on the sidewalk. It sets the cycling movement backwards IMHO. ...even if you had a mechanical issue, and you were able to ride, there would not be good reason to ride on the sidewalk.

the greatest reason is that by riding on the sidewalk, it improperly inserts you into intersections because you end up crossing the adjoining street (perpindicular to your direction of travel) via the crosswalk, many times right into the path of a car stopping at that intersection. it angers that driver, and gives the cycling community more grief overall to have to shoulder.

GET ON THE ROAD!!!

My "issue" was 40 MPH Rush hour traffic at the intersection which I wanted to cross (not join) on Fifth to get where I was going....should I have jumped into it?? It makes NO SENSE...sorry. You might want to check the intersection I am discussing too before commenting...it was beyond ridiculous for that rider comment on. You come down Chesterfield turn 5 feet and you are at the light (where I want to cross)with traffic going down Fifth at 40 MPH....the turning lane is 3 lanes over....yeah maybe I should I jumped in...?

BTW- I waited for traffic from the other side to turn so I am not in their path...not an issue. That is the whole point...the dude jumped to a conclusion based on bad cyclists without having a clue as to where and how I wanted to go. Sorry man...he was just being rude. Next time I'll just chase him down;-)...because I was real close today.

..maybe i'll join in and start yelling too?...

I don't want to rant, nor flame...

I do know that intersection and have riddent Chesterfield down (on the cobbles) and up (before it was one way) on 700c X 28mm tires - but, i digress on my skills.

You could have made the right turn, into traffic, and merged across the lanes until the intersection by (cannot remember the street name) but its the one with the Palumbo building and made the left which would have taken you down in front of the community theatre and over to the Blvd. - or - made the left back onto forbes and then the right onto chesterfield.

you may not like what I am saying, but if you were in a car you would have had to do the same thing - why does being on a bike grant you any special access or permission?

cyclists want treated fairly (in comparison) to motorists, so why do they feel it neccessary to break the laws? ...and as I said in my first post, create further examples to which police and already supicious motorists can further point fingers at.

I am not defending motorists, per se, I am actually defending our fellow cyclist who felt he had good reason to "call you out".

think of it this way; Would you have yelled at a motorist, if you saw him driving in the bike lane (and possibly that day, you as a cyclist, just may have been driving your car when you witnessed this happening...)?

I'm a "safety first" guy.

Sometimes this means I'm on the sidewalk. No sense in biking between drunk drivers and their favored street light pole.

The intersection "insertion" problems willie p talked about?

That isn't from riding on the sidewalk, that is from riding LIKE AN IDIOT on the sidewalk. You have to use your brain no matter where you ride.

On the sidewalk, that might mean stopping at intersections, sometimes even walking accross, or getting off the bike to pass a baby carriage.

Also, I know the intersection that Druid is talking. He speaks true.

Mick

yeah. and it's not like there's a law that says "automobiles may drive in a bike lane, unless it is in a business district"

we are often allowed to ride on the sidewalk. the law says to simply give the right of way to peds. makes sense. only who knows what's a business district or what. plus. cars kill.

there are even sections of the city where cyclists are invited to ride the sidewalk. take smithfield st bridge and the approach from grant st for instance

I ride on the sidewalk on the 16th st bridge headed north, then i get off my bike and walk it across the 16 th st/rt 28/east ohio st intersection so that i dont get killed by everyone running the light.

I also ride the sidewalk a few yards between that friendship ave/baum blvd/crazy intersection so that I can get to the not crazy part of baum without having to ride on baum with all the 55mph-ers.

But for the purposes of this discussion--no matter what vehicle you are in/on, the humans are always going to yell at you and think that they know better and are the experts over what you are doing. Cars, Bikes, Scooters, Walkers. Doesnt matter.

OK...dude...I will really try to explain this more clearly....

It's 8 am...traffic is flying (the cyclist himself was flying past)....at this point you have two choices at this time of day....wait at stop sign on Chesterfield.....and hope you get a break to get into traffic for an immediate left(nearly impossible most times)or go over to walkway...on foot or roll 5 feet...and wait there to cross to get where I am going. Just merging with cars flying past not really the brightest option.You also have multiple busses at that intersection at Chesterfield to your left blocking your view as a cyclist which are bad to deal with in a car let alone on a bike...you simply cannot see around them.I also check first for A) People on sidewalk -if I see them-I get off and walk to that spot. If I decide to go by the walkway instead I wait for opposing turns till clear. If it not like this morning, I merge if clear and make the left (which I have also done-many times)when conditions are right. If I were in a car I would wait obviously but more times than not getting over to the left hand lane in impossible and with all due respect I'd love to see you try this at Rush hour.Many times by car you have to complete a circle around and avoid Chesterfield altogether on your 2nd run for this very reason.The main reason for this? Busses which rarely allow you the time to navigate into left lanes to get where you want.

Besides making a left at the light immediately after Chesterfield is not breaking the law...when it's clear it's done all the time...legally. So by using that road I am not trying to do anything I am not "supposed" to be doing.

If anything, I was being extra cautious...not creating more hazzards. And I'd bet that guy has had far more run ins with cars and cyclists than me...and I've biked Brooklyn at night, as well as many other urban situations many times before.

As far as the bike lane question ...well if I continue to the city using only 5th (as the cyclist did)...there are buses in the bike lane everyday...so I am not sure where you are going there?

I am not really arguing about following rules or creating situations that make it worse for cyclist...I have been biking all summer now to work prior to the kick off of Car Free Fridays in Oakland (which I participated in)I've seen plenty of driving mistakes to yell about including cabbies who like to drive double the speed limit to increase their fares;-).....

I think the transition from places where I am a cyclist (on the road) and where I am behaving more like a pedestrian (accessing a crosswalk, or a sidewalk) are the most difficult, and the tiems when I am least confident I am doing the right thing. Accessing the Smithfield Street Bridge "Multi-Use Path" (aka sidewalk) is a case in point. Another is at those crosswalk locations at which the light sensor will not sense bicycles and I need to push the pedestrian call button.

If I were on Chesterfield (or Murray Hill, or other steep, cobblestoned street that was clearly not a main business thoroughfare or commercial street, I'd be on the sidewalk too. From a safety perspective, I think it's the proper place to be.

Caitlin you are right ...the humans always do yell regardless.

Druid, what bike lane are you talking about on 5th?

I agree with you regarding procedure off chesterfield. If I understand your situation right, you were standing on the carlow side of the intersection of Fifth and Halket. Crossing three lanes over 100 feet of travel with traffic doesn't really make sense unless its all clear. There are benefits to riding a bicycle, one is mobility. sidewalk riding in that area is perfectly legal too.

It seems like you're upset cause the guy made assumptions about you and your experience and choices, then vocalized them in a pointless manner. That would be annoying. But it also looks like you are making assumptions about this other rider too.

P.S. There's no way going all the way over to Bates and then down to the Jail Trail riding flatland into downtown is faster than going straight down fifth! I'll have to try it though just to see, but I am very skeptical of that. Not that it isn't a nice ride...

There are two areas (so far) where I ride on the sidewalk because the alternatives feel a bit suicidal:

- along 5th from the birmingham br. to craft. the bike pgh map SAYS to do that, but i see someone got ticketed in 2006 for doing so? is it legal or not?

- coming from the west end circle onto carson, i stay to the left, turn into the gas station, and ride the sidewalk down to the parking lot entrance.

If i was in the OPs situation I'd probably do the same thing, sounds a lot safer than trying to cross all of that traffic with no light.

i occasionally find myself in a car or on a bike watching someone ride on a street so close to the curb that their pedal might get stuck on it if they tried, and this without them passing any traffic. to these people, i often want to stick my head out the window and say "hey! join traffic! it's safer that way!"

thing is, though, i don't. why? because i'm not a jerk. or at least i try not to be, anyway.

Ditto, HV. You would be doing them a huge favor, though, and possibly sparing them serious injury. What do you call a gutter bunny who bounces a pedal off the curb in heavy traffic? Hassenfeffer.

I do wish there was a non-confrontational way to help them see quickly what it has taken most of us years and years of riding to learn the hard way.

Incidentally, I rode up around Marshall Twp on Sunday morning. Beautiful ride and the motorists were polite, patient, and even friendly. Maybe they were all on their way to church.

the Bike Lane on 5th I really should have called a "Bike Route"....they basically have singage up (very old) with Bike signs everywhere. However the busses also usually take that rightmost lane.

Maybe the Jail trail isn't faster perse....but it definitely is nicer all around;-)

- along 5th from the birmingham br. to craft. the bike pgh map SAYS to do that, but i see someone got ticketed in 2006 for doing so? is it legal or not?

the ticket never came, and it was for riding in the buslane, not on the sidewalk. at the time, the sidewalk was completely un-bikeable, leaving the buslane as the safest option from the bridge to oakland. i ride the sidewalk up fifth to craft sometimes 3 or 4 times in a day.