BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

This is absolutely the time to take action like that, in fact, couldn't happen soon enough. This event will show that this is an issue that affects people from the centers of the cities to the most rural parts of the state.

We should find out what is already being done and coordinate (Pa Walks and Bikes, or something?), as it sounds like you have tried to do, we are not re-inventing the wheel here.

They way you are attacking this is great, Kathi, and should especially have impact at the state, since you are not even a "cyclist", and have been impacted.

should it specifically be "killing a cyclist" or should we join with others and change the penalties for "killing another person," which would include pedestrians, horse and buggy riders, etc?

By including all people who could be impacted by motor vehicle traffic, I think there would be greater support from all areas of pennsylvania. From my point of view, it would show the legislature that careless and/or reckless operation of a motor vehicle affects everyone, and not simply cyclists. We are advocating for safer streets for everyone, by providing law enforcement more tools coupled with stiffer penalties for summary offenses.

I think what we're really looking for isn't so much a change to laws regarding cyclists and killing so much as laws for distracted driving (which would include texting, flip flopping, and other "accidents").

Bill, my Cannondale sits in the garage due to my illness. I wasn't the cyclist that you all are, but I did enjoy going out on the trails in my adult years. My brother and I did our first 14 mile trip on a one speed from Sykesville to DuBois when we were young. Biking is something I miss so much..... even on the scale I did biking.

I will need some help on this petition because frankly, my energy levels are dwindling. What I wrote up is very centered around what happened in my brother's accident. I am sure it should be more general and right now I am not up to it. If I don't watch, I won't be making it to DuBois this weekend. Can I get help in making the petition more general in nature?? Can I count on people to circulate the petition, if we decide to do it ?

Hey all,

This is Josh from PA Walks and Bikes. I would really like to work with you on this advocacy project to make our roads safer for bicyclists and all vulnerable users.

In some ways, now is the time to act because the legislature is back in session. However, there are only a handful of session days left this year. As of now, the senate does not plan to come back after the elections. This drives me crazy because there is so much work to be done.

The good news is that for the first time ever, bicyclists have a full-time voice in Harrisburg through my work with PA Walks and Bikes. I can be in the committee meetings and pushing our elected officials in the state capitol, but I need the support of all of you from around the state.

Unfortunately, no bill has been introduced that would do exactly what you're discussing. That's just a bump in the road though, and we can move past it.

I have to run now, but I will check back on this message board. Let's put a strategy together and push our legislature to action.

Josh, thanks, great to hear from you.

Kathi, don't wear yourself down, same some energy for Sun. I'll work on some simple general verbiage for a petition when I get some time today, I'll print and bring something Sunday.

@Sloaps - whatever definitely needs to be all inclusive for road users - but for some reason, cyclists as the "canary in the coal mine" sticks in my head.

Sloaps: should it specifically be "killing a cyclist" or should we join with others and change the penalties for "killing another person," which would include pedestrians, horse and buggy riders, etc?

+1

The case of the mother and baby buggy out in Mt Lebonan shows that the casual response to traffic deaths isn't simply antipathy to cyclists. The real question is: how long will our culture continue to tolerate the combination of casual violation of traffic laws and a traffic fatality rate of over 30,000 per year?

Josh, the more people that work together, the better.

I was told there isn't a bill , but that our proposals could be tacked on to an amendment that is up for passage. Like how all the pork barrel spending gets authorized in DC. .... it's tacked on to something that people want.. and it's slipped in with it. Is that correct, Josh???

I think that is the way it works for spending bills.. for new or amended criminal codes I don't think they mash unrelated ones together like that. I could be wrong though--I am recalling my information from high school government class (which was quite some time ago).

The fine doesn't match the seriousness of the offense when candy wrappers get a $300.00 fine.

Doesn't anyone with intelligence see that in Harrisburg???

75 Pa. C. S. § 3714. Careless driving

(a) GENERAL RULE.-- Any person who drives a vehicle in careless disregard for the safety of persons or property is guilty of careless driving, a summary offense.

(b) UNINTENTIONAL DEATH.-- If the person who violates this section unintentionally causes the death of another person as a result of the violation, the person shall, upon conviction, be sentenced to pay a fine of $ 500.

(c) SERIOUS BODILY INJURY.-- If the person who violates this section unintentionally causes the serious bodily injury of another person as a result of the violation, the person shall, upon conviction, be sentenced to pay a fine of $ 250.

(d) DEFINITION.-- As used in this section, "serious bodily injury" means any bodily injury which creates a substantial risk of death or which causes serious, permanent disfigurement or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily member or organ.

Posting a proposed statement for a petition to be circulated on Sunday, please comment. Or if it sucks, completely revise it and send me something. Thanks.

"PETITION TO URGE THE PENNSYLVANIA STATE LEGISLATURE TO STRENGTHEN STATE LAW REGARDING DISTRACTED AND RECKLESS DRIVING

We, the undersigned, respectfully request that the members of the Pennsylvania State Legislature pursue a course of action to put the sentences and fines for distracted and reckless driving, i.e. cell phones, texting, GPS, and other in-car devices, as well as other unsafe similar behaviors, in line with the seriousness of the consequences of such irresponsible operation of a potentially dangerous vehicle. As the law stands, the penalties for distracted and reckless driving are woefully inadequate to address the consequences in either a punitive or preventative manner.

The origins of our concerns are the recent deaths of Dr. Robert Varacallo of Dubois, and Donald Parker of Pittsburgh, in separate incidents with strikingly similar circumstances. These men were respected members of their communities, family men, and outstanding citizens, who met their deaths on Pennsylvania roads as a result of no fault of their own, but by irresponsible actions of others who were operating motor vehicles in a dangerous manner.

We strongly believe that the laws must be revised to give law enforcement officers and public prosecutors the tools to charge and convict individuals who cause grave danger to the public. The two men were named above were bicyclists, but our concerns are for the greater safety for all people in the public sphere, cyclists, walkers, men and women, children and the elderly. It is our belief that the safety of cyclists is merely an indicator of the level of safety that exists for everyone.

Our recommendations include, but are not limited to:

• More significant penalties for phone use and texting while driving

• Penalties for drowsy driving

• A three foot minimum passing distance for cyclists

• Much stronger penalties for those found to be intentionally harassing and injuring cyclists and pedestrians, including more significant fines, extended suspension of license privileges’, and public service.

• Mandatory alchohol and drug testing, performed within a specified time limit, in road incidents involving serious bodily injury and unintentional death

• Frequent and realistic license testing that accurately reflects an individual’s ability to operate a vehicle, and more effective ability of the State to revoke the privilege.

• Better enforcement of existing laws across the board

Vehicle safety for the vehicle occupants has been continually improved over the years through legislation, however the safety of the public outside of vehicles has been grievously disregarded. It is long past time that the State of Pennsylvania took measures to improve the safety of all the citizenry on the roads, as other states have done."

That's hot.

Will this petition be anywhere else? In webform, mebbe?

I don't know how to word it, but I'd like something stronger with regards to "accidents" that lead to death.

A three strikes you're out law would also do nicely. Three moving violations you lose your license for X amount of time (where X == very, very long if not permanent). Caught driving without a license (not like "forgot it at home", but unlicensed driver) gets jail time and a fine on par with an entire new car purchase, not a used car payment. Legislation that allowed fines to increase with inflation would also be lovely, but that's for ALL fines. Let local LEOs use radar and set up speed traps, not just state cops.

I'm sorry, this petition is probably not the place for all this. It's just getting to me and no amount of chocolate is helping to lift it.

Thank you edmonds for pulling that together. Sloaps - I've seen online websites for petitions (even signed a few), it should be easy to pull together... ipetitions.com, onlinepetitions.com, thepetitionsite.com are all options, I've never personally dealt with any of them that I know of, though.

"A three foot minimum distance when passing cyclists" might be a better way to phrase it. "For cyclists" makes it sound like we want them to require cyclists to stay three feet from cars, not vice versa.

If somebody is motivated to do a webby version of it once it's commented and ironed, go for it.

Thanks, Steven, that's what I'm looking for.

Albert Varacallo

Fewer demands.

I would boil it down to "there must be significant consequences for threatening, injuring, or killing other users of the public way. Failure to exercise due care must not be tolerated."

A few thoughts............

for distracted and reckless driving are woefully inadequate to address the consequences in either a punitive or preventative manner ie. $300.00 fine for discarded candy wrappers,$500.00 fine for reckless driving causing a death.

The two men were named above were ( take out one were)

citizenry citizens ?????

Sorry about the name, I was just trying to go too fast.

I know..... that 's OK...

The petition looks great!!

I always am so shocked when I read the examples.

It just makes me shake my head and think ....how in the world can you equate the two scenarios.!!??? Whoever posted that originally really got my attention when I read that

There is already legislation in the pipeline for 4 foot passing and harassing cyclists. (Though it is not clear to me how these things make it out of a committee and get up for a vote) Not sure if you want to include these issues, or more narrowly focus this petition on severe [or any?] consequences for senselessly killing or maiming another human being with an automobile due to incompetence behind the wheel.

Cool, I can revise it to read "support 4 ft passing and harrassing cyclists etc etc already in legislative process" - good!

School just let out, but in oct, when it starts back up again, I can stand out by the racks for an hour or so between classes and have people sign. if it's in webform, I can try to get it some buzz around campus.

There is also quite a bit of legislation already introduced for using cell phones and other gadgets while driving (one bill even passed the house! - and the Gov. said he would sign it if the senate approved). You may want to reference that in a similar fashion: http://www.drivinglaws.org/pa-laws.php

what about standards of investigation

mandatory cell phone records

mandatory drug/alcohol testing ( serum blood levels, hair analysis, in addition to breathalizer)

mental health evaluation

• Frequent and realistic license testing that accurately reflects an individual’s ability to operate a vehicle, and more effective ability of the State to revoke the privilege.

I'd strengthen this some. Something about being able to prove that you continue to be capable of driving, and/or written tests to demonstrate that you are aware of changes to traffic laws.

Somewhere in the 700+ posts on that first thread, we tossed around several ideas along this line, which I include here by reference, but the above couple dozen words are the most cogent, I think.

I hate to keep harping on the same point, but if you can run someone over, kill them, and law enforcement refuses to apply existing law, why does anything think a new law will help? It's fairly clear that our high school student broke at least a few traffic laws there. I know, all the advocates for this law just dismiss me with a "yeah, but this will send a message, it doesn't need to be actually enforced, it will give prosecutors an objective standard, etc". I'm running out of time to come back and say "I told you so" twenty years from now.

Does requiring mental health evaluations help the prosecution? If they find the defendant had some mental issue, doesn't that let the defense argue that he should be less responsible for his actions?

I agree police should be doing cell phone and drug/alcohol testing. (But it seems any competent police department would be doing that already. Legislation might not be effective at making an incompetent police officer competent.)

(Um, if they did mental health evaluations, there would be a LOT fewer drivers out there - and fewer cyclists as well I suspect. Just sayin'.)

I don't know if new or tougher laws will help. The state of Illinois seems to think they will. Somebody has to push on something, the status quo is unacceptable. I'm wide open to suggestions.

If there is never any accoutability....never any consequences......... such as in my brother's accident and Don Parker's...then what is to promote the reduction of these type of accidents!

The severity of the consequence will help to promote reduction.

I think I meant to say lie detector test, even though it isn't 100% reliable, rather than mental health testing. ( I was really tired) For those with a conscience, a lie detector test may answer some questions when there is uncertainty such as in the flip flop accident and my brother's accident. Why would one tell the truth in an accident when they could be held liable. Truthfulness is a commodity that is hard to come by and I don't think it was offered in either of these accidents.You can't count on police, such as the Sandy townsip police, to do a top rate job. They don't have the experience.

The petition is sorted based on everyone's comments, will bring the printed version on Sunday.

I have no idea about the Sandy township police. I think the event Sunday has greater potential to effect positive change because, my impression of the Pittsburgh law enforcement community is that they anticipate (with negligent intent or not) that other events, home invasions, drug killings, whatever, will eventually silt over these petty "traffic deaths".

To answer a few questions and provide some feedback...

First, yes, any of these proposals could be added to an existing bill through an amendment, but the bill must be related. Generally, in this case it would have to be a transportation bill. The key though is translating an idea from layman's terms into legislative language. Typically, this needs to be done by legislative staffers.

The easiest possible win out there is the cell phone ban, as this has already moved through nearly the entire legislative process. We need to send a strong message to our senators to pass this. The House has already come through. You can send them an email from this link: http://org2.democracyinaction.org/o/5975/action/cell-phone-ban

Second to that would probably involve amending an existing bill with the safe passing or harassment language, since they already have legislative language written.

While there is nothing wrong with petitions, individual letters and phone calls are more effective. You can certainly pursue the petition, but please don't consider this a substitute for individual outreach. DO BOTH!

I do think it would be more effective for us to pick just two or three key objectives to pursue. While I agree with all of your ideas, it can be difficult to pursue so many legislative objectives at once.

I also think that we should be thinking in terms of "vulnerable road users" in our language. This inclusive term covers cyclists, pedestrians, horse and buggies, skateboarders, and anyone else who isn't encased in a 3000 pound steel cage.

Finally, the work of advocating our state legislature can be a time consuming process. In order to build a long-term statewide voice for these issues, PA Walks and Bikes needs the support of concerned people like you. Please become a member so that we can keep pushing these issues. We will not rest until our legislature wakes up. Become a member today: http://www.pawalksandbikes.org/become-a-member/

I hope to see you all at the ride of silence on Sunday.

As for unintended consequences, know this:

In the absence of pervasive social change, increased penalties will cause LEOs to be less willing to issue citations and cause juries to be more likely to acquit.

You might get somewhere with increased penalties for hit-and-run. Nobody thinks that is unavoidable.

Law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice and when they fail in this purpose, they become the dangerously structured dams that block the flow of social progress

MLK