The purpose of this thread is to capture and aggregate photos of Pittsburgh bike police behaving badly. The idea behind it is to have photo evidence for bike advocates to point to, when we argue that the bike police are doing stuff like riding the wrong way against traffic and riding without headlights after dark. 'Bike police behaving badly' make drivers and pedestrians view bikers badly, and set a terrible example for other bicyclists. The end goal is for the bicycling and police communities to have a positive relationship, but compiling the photos is one of the steps we need to take towards that end goal. Keeping your own safety in mind (be careful around aggressive, angry officials who carry guns and batons!!), please take photos when you can and post them here with an explanation of where/when/what the photos is of.
@loriF, did a particular incident inspire this thread?
If not, it seems kind of odd to throw this out there when there've been a handful of incidents reported here about police in cars, but not so many about the bike cops who, in my experience seem to work more like beat cops who know the neighborhood.
Good question, and the answer is yes! I just posted about it in another thread (one proposing we get a bike policeperson to ride as a participant in the next Flock of Cycles). I'll copy the text describing it here:
"I just got back from a post-Ride of Silence picnic on the side of Forbes Avenue in Oakland, across the street from Dunkin Donuts. As we sat talking and eating, the group was upset to see a uniformed bike policeman bicycling the wrong way, on the one-way part of Forbes Avenue. The group started to talk about the many times people had seen bike police here do the exact same thing, and also ride after dark without a headlight on (which is mandated by law). Another problem people complained about is that they have often seen bike police ride on busy sidewalks full of pedestrians, when they could safely ride in the street.
I personally have only lived in Pittsburgh a little over 5 months, so I haven't experienced seeing all these things. However, I have heard riders complain about police not listening to bike rider issues in Pittsburgh, from many people at many rides here."
Eh. I feel that the police are having a different function out there other than just riding leisurely or commuting. While more than likely not all the time, I am sure there are justified reason for some of the things they do.
@LoriF, thank you for giving this some context. I can see your point.
To me, it's like seeing a police car double park in a bad spot, or go through a red light with a short burst of the siren: sometimes it is necessary and sometimes it is simple laziness/abuse of power.
As we've seen with some of the other incidents reported here, police officers do not always know all the details of traffic laws, especially as they pertain to bicycles. A different approach might be to reach out in an education/awareness mode to the Zone commanders who supervise the bike patrol units. It is in their interest as well as ours that more people know and follow laws and "best practices." Like with other police-related behavior, my guess is that some police just don't know the law, or feel that's the best way to complete their duties, and a few (hopefully the minority) just don't care about being model citizens.
I was there when the idea for this thread originated. No malice was intended. Yes, please look at the other thread. Maybe a restatement would be, "Um, guys? You're supposed to be setting an example, so it would behoove you to be just a tad more vigilant about rule adherence."
And that it's our job to give polite reminders every once in a while.
There's a rant I posted a year or two ago regarding police setting a gooood example. More about driving than biking. I will say that I've witnessed sidewalk cycling along Carson, but also one particular officer who pedals up 18 th street back to zone 3 hq. He is badass, and I informed him of this on one occasion.
Well, this is a web forum for opinions and there's a lot of them. I would like to express mine: this is possibly the most counter-productive thing I've heard of.
Let's start collecting evidence and documenting one side of stories in a publicly-accessible format, with no control over what people post, about the one group (bike cops) within a larger faction (police) that we really need good relationships with; further, that we need more than they need us.
How many times do we (as a group) recoil when we read a newspaper comment that says, Last Wednesday I saw a bike run a red light, Hey they should all stay off the roads?
Now, sitting on the grass eating a sandwich, you saw a cop riding contraflow in a no-traffic situation (which is something I did myself a few times today) and you're going to smear a group over an individual, assume you have the whole story, and play shitty web games with a group that's our bridge to an important stakeholder?
These are the people who decide what story goes into the accident reports. You're going to solicit and publish unverified reports of unprofessional behavior, because it's your place to make reminders?
Can I remind you that a Pittsburgh Police Officer was run over while trying to make Penn Avenue safer for bicyclists?
Can I remind you that today was Labor Day, a celebration of the working american, and somehow a bunch of people with the day off sitting in the park decided to focus on a working man who might have taken the same shortcut that I took myself a few times today?
With true respect, who made it anybody's job to give polite reminders, when we can't "police" (sorry) our own? Are "we" going to give polite reminders to bicyclists not wearing helmets? Reminders to bicyclists using cellphones? Reminders to bike ninjas, people with (gasp) no brakes, cyclists blowing stop signs? (I mean, this ain't Indiana)
I want cops on bikes. I want drivers to see cops on bikes. Cops on bikes is where our Venn diagram overlaps the Man's.
I cannot support this suggested activity. We are not the Bike Police QA / IA department.
The most polite expression I can offer is: this is truly unwise. Please reconsider.
"Post Murals, Not Bike Cops"
Peace Out, V.
ps- taken after today's RideOfSilence, two sides of the same building:
I agree with what Vannevar is saying.
Following around bike police and taking candid pictures paparazzi style will not help build better relationship between the bike community and the police.
I try to follow the rules of the road to the best of my ability but eventually someone can take a picture of me doing something stupid even if it's by accident on my part.
I have had very positive experiences with bike cops. I have taken time to talk to many of them and they are very approachable. On my commute I pass some of them often and I have had great conversations with them. They ARE good people.
The bike police have always had an open invitation to Flock. Several of them know about it. I personally have told them about it and a few came to last years Try a Bike.
Now that we have Flock up and running again I can suggest to them to ride along and I think some will come.
Yes some cops break rules, and some cyclist do as well. But that doesn't make all cops and cyclist rule breakers.
I want a good polite and positive relationship with the police. I feel the Bike police are very open to us.
I recognize the issues with this, but as I was there to speak to LoriF about this in person, I think you guys are reading a little more negativity into this than was really intended.
To summarize what was actually a longer and more nuanced conversation:
This discussion arose because one of us said something to the effect of "hey, look at that cop riding contraflow on Forbes Ave on his far right / traffic's far left lane; that is not a good idea."
Then some of us recalled how just the other night we noticed some bike officers cruising around Oakland with their front lights off while riding the wrong way down a one way street. Also not a great idea. And something that can be seen frequently in Oakland, unfortunately.
Oakland is already a ..."challenging" area as far as cycling goes because of students who don't know good riding etiquette and safe behavior. This kind of behavior from police officers just reinforces the idea that cyclists don't have to ride in the direction of traffic, don't need lights at night, can ride on sidewalks even in a business district / when there's significant pedestrian traffic, etc. It's really problematic as an example to inexperienced cyclists as well as in terms of PR to drivers.
That doesn't mean we need to slam bike cops. I'm sure plenty of them are perfectly nice people who are ultimately "on our side" and who just don't realize that their behavior may be imitated or may be considered in some way representative of the greater cycling community.
The optimistic idea is that maybe some gentle (or not-so-gentle) reminders might be able to convince police officers to remember that they may be taken as examples and that they should follow traffic laws when riding (at least when possible without impeding their abilities to do their jobs). However, some others present mentioned having had conversations with police officers in which they were not at all receptive to discussion of why they were riding without their lights on or doing similar things, which led to a discussion of whether it might have been nice to capture these violations and start to collect them so that they might be able to accompany a polite letter asking for cooperation with our community or something along those lines.
Granted, this is not without its own problems, and while I support LoriF's sentiment here, I'm not sure whether this approach is the best one (something we all discussed today). But her heart's in the right place.
ETA: We also talked about trying to invite the campus bike officers to a Flock ride. Mr Marv, we're on the same page, more or less.
ETA again: Eek, sorry about mixing up all kinds of names the first time I typed this. I promise I know your names (real and board)
A bigger problem is people who look at any kind of outlier behavior and use that as an excuse for their own bad behavior or to hate on entire groups. (as in, "Hey, that bike cop is doing something stupid so I will bump the rear tire of the next cyclist I see to teach them all a lesson.")
+2 Vannevar
+1 Mr Marvelous
I can't support this suggestion in any way, shape or form. Yes, there are people out there in every profession that flex rules at times. Sometimes appropriately, sometimes unnecessarily, but I'm not going to be deciding which applies to these officers. I AM BEYOND GRATEFUL that there are men and women willing to take on that often thankless job of risking their lives to protect the rest of us. If they want to salmon on their bike - which btw just might have been the most expeditious way for that officer to get to something important, then I will not criticize them or support anyone else who chooses to.
If you want to "police" cyclist's behavior then best start at home. Why did I watch several of the group today riding three abreast with one literally riding ON the white line dividing the traffic lanes? If you want cars to give you 4 feet then move over to where a driver is actually able to do that.
Bottom line for me - unless you want the job of law enforcement with all the risks and aggravation and pure crap that they have to put up with, then you have no business trying to tell them how to do their job.
How about just saying thank you to them instead.
Ok, I'm convinced by Vannevar and Mr. Marvelous (plus after thinking it over this afternoon while giving a good cleaning to my apartment). It seemed like a good idea at first, but the big important thing is to develop a good long term relationship and communication between bikers and the police - and shaming and blaming isn't good for that. I do still think it is very important for the police on bikes not to ride the wrong way on a one way road (super dangerous, and especially in that location a bad example for impressionable students). But there's a more positive way to communicate it than a photo collection of bad behavior.
Plus, I want to say I love the mural photos thread... really beautiful murals around Pittsburgh, and neat to see the photos.
This thread is pointless.
I have no doubt that LoriF was offended by the sight of a police person riding up the wrong way on the street (how dare they!). But apparently not enough to have lumbered out of the Dunky, pursued the cop and demanded an explanation.
Perhaps the cop had just received a call about an assault and was trying to get to the scene by the shortest route. What if the victim had been you, LoriF? Would you still have demanded that the cop first go up to 5th (or whatever)?
[edit: I note that Lori has reconsidered her position. Thank you.]
+1 LoriF, I think the relationship is the key.
Also, I'd like to say I really love what you said about inviting the bike police on rides, although that may be easier for them off-duty rather than in uniform, what with them representing and all...
I think sometimes the best thing we can do is to bring somebody that may not see our perspective (reporters, politicians, pundits) out on the bike with us. A bike ride and a cup of coffee at BigDog probably go a lot further than a white paper and a debate.
My compliments to all.
Cheers, V.
Actually, the officer in question was riding salmon in the center lane because they had to go around someone who was double parked, but was most assuradley traveling at a leasurely pace and not in any form of hot pursuit.
+1 for not painting targets on our backs.
OT I saw quite a few cops on bikes. Some of them are in shorts, some of them are in pants. But all of them are in pretty heavy police top (jackets?). I cannot imagine how I would feel myself in this top on a hot and humid day like last three days. Is it mandatory? Could we somehow help them advising correct bike clothes?
And there is almost no reflective materials on bikes and uniform. And Nick has a lot good ideas in this area. 
Hah, thank you, Mikhail, for pointing out what is always my first thought whenever I see a bike cop in this city. That uniform must be mandatory. I would have died of heat stroke after about a mile today if I had been wearing that.
Motorists behaving badly are much easier to document in the wild. Maybe the focus should be on a real threat.
I had kind of a mild negative reaction to the first post, but I withheld. And my reasons are quite different from some of the other stronger reactions.
Inviting off-duty officers to ride would be great, to make community contact, but I would not expect any epiphanies regarding their behaviour on the street.
First of all, the type of personality that takes to police work will not react well to being "corrected" gently or otherwise, by the citizenry. I can't see that going well at all. To look at it from a different direction, an attorney would not take well to being told how to argue a case, and your doctor would not take well to being told what you think you need to treat a condition.
As far as setting an example, I think most of the citizenry is pretty clear that the average person is not able to behave as the police are able to.
Finally, based on the way police drive automobiles, I don't see any evidence that they see any reason to set exemplary behaviour in any venue, that entire concept just seems completely naive.
Mikhail: But all of them are in pretty heavy police top (jackets?). I cannot imagine how I would feel myself in this top on a hot and humid day like last three days. Is it mandatory? Could we somehow help them advising correct bike clothes?
They're wearing kevlar body armor (ie, bullet-proof vests). The body armor doesn't completely encase them, and I imagine (just guessing here) they're reluctant to wear anything over the vest that makes the uncovered parts of their chest evident.
Just like us, even way more than us, they approach their activity with a "how do I not get killed" perspective.
Glass houses.
Thanks Vannevar. Documenting police officers on bicycles should certainly not be the focus of our advocacy efforts. There are so so many things we could all be doing that would be much more productive:
Documenting speeding drivers with video at a problematic intersection (we have a radar detector you can borrow), documenting drivers driving through stop signs and stop lights, working with your local community group to get traffic calming and bike lanes installed in your neighborhood, teaching kids how to stay safe on bikes, working with your kid(s)' school(s) to encourage biking/walking to school, writing positive letters to the editor, meeting 1-on-1 with your council person to talk about how safe biking and walking infrastructure are important to you and determines how you vote...
We need the police on our side.
I have no doubt that LoriF was offended by the sight of a police person riding up the wrong way on the street (how dare they!). But apparently not enough to have lumbered out of the Dunky, pursued the cop and demanded an explanation.
Perhaps the cop had just received a call about an assault and was trying to get to the scene by the shortest route. What if the victim had been you, LoriF? Would you still have demanded that the cop first go up to 5th (or whatever)?
Not only were you not there to see the incident that started the thread, you apparently didn't read the multiple posts by multiple people who were there who have described the behavior in question. But thanks for the unnecessary attack on a fellow member of your community who had what she thought was a useful proposal she wanted some feedback on.
(ETA: Having been there as the concept developed--and I wasn't in favor of it, either--it's amazing to see some of the... creative interpretations in people's reactions.
For starters, nobody was advocating following bike-cops around to take pictures of them behaving poorly; it was a suggestion that if you should happen to see something that shouldn't be happening, you should create some documentation of it, which could then, for example, be sent to the Bureau to say "hey, when you guys do stuff like this, it's not helping." You know, like those "If you see something, say something" signs all over airports and public transit the last ten years....)
+1 buffalo buffalo. Regardless of whether people agreed with this particular proposal, I think the reactions to LoriF's post in this thread have been unnecessarily hostile and have involved a lot of unfair assumptions both about the police behavior that was observed leading up to this discussion and about the intentions behind her idea.
I'd like to say that I am completely certain that the proposal came from a good heart and a bright mind trying to address a problem, period. There can't be anything wrong with that.
We need people to speak up and make suggestions, and probably folks who have moved to the Burgh relatively recently have a fresh view of things and experience from other places.
I sure don't see any negative intentions and I don't attribute any negative energy to the proposal or the folks involved.
I'm realizing now that I was way too strident. I was wrong. I apologize and I am sorry. Although it doesn't matter, I meant no disrespect. (I disagreed, but that's all the dis-ing I intended)
If I've offended you, please PM me. If you're going to be at OTB Friday, I would be pleased to offer you the beverage of your choice.
Respectfully,
V.
Yeah dude and think!
A smashed bike cop = A bike lane painting crew following the hearse.
A excerpt from my new novel:
Bike Advocacy and YOU!
Chapter one:
your death is good for the cause
Adding more fuel to the fire,
p.leon
LoriF:
The purpose of this thread is to capture and aggregate photos of Pittsburgh bike police behaving badly
buffalo buffalo:
nobody was advocating following bike-cops around to take pictures of them behaving poorly
Maybe these statement are contradictory, maybe not...
In any case, I edited my post to reflect Lori's followup, which appeared while I was composing mine.
I would agree with scott's take on the matter: there are more important things to worry about and better ways to make an actual difference.
See you on the road.
+1
This thread makes me uncomfortable.
mmmhmm, should have been deleted some time ago.
Yeah I actually thought of just asking for this to be deleted when I saw the title.
I haven't really seen / met any jerk bike cops yet since they have been appearing more often.
In fact, one day last fall I was out on the south side riverfront trail from Homestead to Hot Metal on my rollerblades and out-skated them back to the bridge LMFAO. They were actually TRYING to race me back and we all laughed when we got to the bridge —— (just an FYI if any of you were wondering how hard it would be to get away from one of them on a BIKE) LMFAO...
I don't think this thread should be deleted. It serves to show how we can come together as a group to actually discuss our thoughts on these matters and not succumb to knee-jerk reactions based on a single incident. Stick this thread on a stake to serve as a warning.
