I play soccer. I've ridden 40 mile rides. I run track. But I have not done anything like the DD and because of Sunday School will never be able to make the training rides. So I'd like all of the alums to be flat out with me: How difficult physically is the DD? What are the problems (physical, mechanical, mental) that you've had to deal with during it? What was the hardest aspect of it for you?
Any and all stories and input would be appreciated. I'm still going to be riding and because of soccer I have to be training so I don't think I'll be out of shape by thanksgiving. Thank you in advance for the words of wisdom!
I have done it twice.
My suggestion is test ride the hills. They are crazy steep! So you made it up one or three with out much difficulty? That's good...just picture yourself doing it with 100 people around, temps in the 30s-50s, and tired muscles.
I did it last year (my second time) and I think it was my longest ride of the year...and I did it with an 8 speed bike! haha.
If you want it...you can do it!
My opinion is anyone can do it, and if you're not gunning for points, you're only "working" 13 times, for a few minutes at a time, over 6 hours.
Just show up with the right gearing to match your fitness level (which, as Andrew said, is only found out by trying).
You're young. You're probably fine. But they do suck. It is probably going to be more mental than anything. Just make sure you know how to dodge falling riders. The course though is 60 miles? There are hills between the hills, but there are times when you will be stopped. There are videos online. Google it.
I haven't ever done it, but from what I've seen, it's as much about bike handling and balance at low speed as it is about strength and conditioning. Yes, no, those who have done it?
Also, for those who have done it, how do any of the hills compare to Negley Ave from Fifth Ave up? That's the hardest hill I can think of that's kind of central in town.
OT Roger, who do you play soccer for? My son is playing the Obama school this afternoon in Schenley. Should be...mucky.
When I did it two years ago I saw what appeared to be 14-year olds, on typical teenager bikes, doing it. Doing every hill.
It's about gearing, and dealing with handling on very steep hills. You have to learn to shift your weight forward enough so your front wheel doesn't come up. That's the tricky part. So practice, but then I'll bet you can do it.
Edit: Negley from Fifth up would count as a break during a Dirty Dozen hills. There are hills that are about that steep for part of the climb and then get really steep.
Qed filmed the 2010 ride & made a program about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oiu-y-WxHqc
(its about 30 min long)
there's also a few other vids highlighting some of the hills too.
I'd say handling and knowing how to shift your weight is a big part of it. Along the lines of what other people have said try some hills. There is a minmum speed on a lot of these hills or you will fall over. Most of the hills to the north are just a bridge away. You can probably see Logan from the 40th street bridge. Logan is hard and steep.
Yeah, Logan is a good example. You start out thinking, well, this is steep, but I'm doing OK. But then the real fun begins.
It's hard. Really, really hard. But, you should totally do it. I wasn't in the best shape of my life and riding a bike way too small for me so that I couldn't climb out of the saddle without my forearms crying out in pain, but I still made it up 10 of the 13 hills and most way up the rest. If I don't go away with Lena for Thanksgiving I'm going to do it again this year.
if you need an accessible hill that is not a DD hill, but maybe should be...
try this one:
Junction Hollow
go up Greenfield Ave
** Right ** on Sylvan (not across bridge)
to Waldeck
to Bigelow St
Climb until you can't any more, or you reach the top (which ever comes first)
This hill tops out at or near Lydia St
this is about 1 mi. in length
I've done it twice, once when I was in good shape (got 7th out of +120) and once when I wasn't (I knew my place and stayed out of the way). I agree with most of what's said above. I don't agree with the comment that anyone can do it - if you don't have a certain level of strength, endurance and handling skills no amount of gearing will let you successfully do every hill. I don't say this to be negative or crass, but rather because I think it's reality.
I would suggest riding to the South Side and riding up Barry, Holt and Eleanor a few times to see how you do. That is one of the tougher hills. If you try the actual ride, I would suggest gearing your bike as low as you can, and giving some thought to things like clothing weight, how much stuff to carry, etc. Also, as I say in the PBS video linked above, stay to the right on Canton.
Solid advice in this thread, for sure. Bring appropriate gearing, clothing and food.
And really, even if you end up totally over your head you're never more than a few minutes from civilization. It's basically all in the city.
And seriously, this is the age to have these sorts of adventures.
@ W Roger: if nothing else, you're welcome to meet up with us somewhere in the middle of one of the longer scouting rides.
We're doing the first half of the DD on 10/21; the second half on 11/4; and as much of it as we can handle on 11/11.
One reason to think carefully about clothes is that, except when actually climbing, you're pedaling slowly or just flat-out stopped. It's easy to get chilly when you're sweat-soaked and stationary at the top of a hill for 10 minutes or more, waiting for the last stragglers. Layers that you can easily adjust are a good idea.
Have some fun, give it a shot...what's the worst that could happen?
it's pretty damned difficult, especially if you're about 220 lbs (which i'm guessing you're not?). but if you can make it up one of the hills (rialto was my first), it's not that difficult to just keep going and train yourself for all of them. it takes a while, and some of them (ahem, logan) can be really daunting (those are the ones you'll want to train on the most). but have a go at one or two of the hills. even if you don't make it up the first time, you'll get better, and it definitely gets easier (unless you go faster).
as far as handling being important, i think that's true for canton and boustead, but most of the rest you don't have to worry about falling over.
as far as nearby hills that compare: there's a hill in the east hills (dornbush) that is more difficult than most if not all of the dirty dozen hills. winebiddle in garfield is dirty dozen steep near the top. kendall street from lawrenceville up to stanton heights is pretty badass. and yeah, there's a few hills right across the river in sharpsburg, aspinwall, etna, and millvale. any one of them should give you some idea of what you're up against.
Luckily I don't have too worry too much about power to weight (5'7", 11 stone). But what is it that makes the hills difficult? Is it more so pitch, or distance?
My opinion, it's the pitch. I can ride up a steep hill all day thanks to my super-low gearing (3/4). But it's a different skill trying to do that while also preventing yourself from doing a wheelie.
to me, there are two kinds of hills. you've got the long steep ones (e.g. center/guyasuta, ravine/sharps hill, sycamore), and you've got the short, ridiculously steep (rialto, canton, boustead). some are somewhat in the middle or a combination of both.
after a while, the long ones start to feel like a break. the truly difficult ones are pretty long with sections of ridicu-steep, like barry/holt/eleanor and especially suffolk/hazelton/burgess.
what makes them so difficult is that you have to generally put out a lot more power than you're used to, and often for longer than you might think.
really, though, you should go check out one of these hills. it's the only way to know!
But what is it that makes the hills difficult? Is it more so pitch, or distance?
Depends on the hill. Ravine, Suffolk, B/H/E are long, steep hills. Others, like Berryhill, Canton, and Welsh, are just short and steep. A few hills have dodgy surfaces (Canton being the best known), which adds to the difficulty, especially in a group.
As Eric mentioned, depending on where you live, you can probably access a few of the hills without venturing very far (the South Side Hills are very easy to access, and if you live in the East End, there are four hills easily accessible on the other side of the Allegheny). Those hills are a reasonable cross-section of the entire ride.
Most everyone will have hills that are "easy" for them, and others that are really hard. I've never done the DD proper, but I've climbed all the hills in a single ride, and my experience is that there are certain "mental" hills for me:
* Centre: Yeah, it's not too steep, but you just look up, and you see the entire hill in front of you.
* Logan: Like Centre, but the climbing is even harder.
* B/H/E: Making the left on Eleanor and looking up is just soul-crushing.
* B/H/E: Making the left on Eleanor and looking up is just soul-crushing.
That. I can't recall the last time I ride BHE with a first-timer, that they didn't say something exceedingly rude upon making the turn.
Ravine used to be one of my mental-block hills, for whatever reason...last weekend was the first time I recall being unbothered by it. Of course, that may have something to do with dropping right to my granny and zenning out on the climb, rather than actually putting much effort into it, but still...
that left onto eleanor is classic. after my first failed dirty dozen attempt (mechanical on the third hill), i was lucky enough that some friends of mine were filming the hills for an attempted documentary (one of them works for pbs, and this effort led to the video posted earlier), so i was able to throw my bike on someone's car, and ride around with them to watch the rest of the ride.
the guy i was riding with was filming right at that turn, the left onto eleanor. i can't tell you how many people came around and either said something very rude ("you've got to be kidding me!" was probably the most polite thing i heard), or just immediately got off and started walking.
my mental hill has always been logan. i think because the first time i tried it, it was 95° out, and i nearly passed out twice, taking a break mid-hill. but that top part is just killer on your arms.
oh, there's an interesting thought! normally riding a bike, you worry about your legs tiring. but you'll feel it in your arms on these hills, too.
It was one of the top three hardest things I've ever done on a bike, including 100-mile mountain bike races, 24-hour mountain bike races, and the like. No kidding.
But as others have said, it's easy to bail if you need to, and you never know until you try.
Have you done any mountain biking? Those skills help a lot.
It will definitely work your upper body, too. I have found that too low of a gear can be hurtful. Find your comfy place. Oh and fuck Logan. Fuck that hill so hard. I am gonna have to do a lot to change my mentality to not let that hill defeat me this Sunday. Oh and mountain biking helps with bike handling skills in general.
All of a sudden I'm starting to regret swapping out my triple.
I can do center on 34-19. Last year I took my bike with a triple on most of the hills and it was overkill.
There's something to be said for a 50/34 and an 11-34 cassette.
I have not done the DD itself, but I've climbed four of the hills at one time or another. Suffolk/Hazleton/Burgess is a mix of really long, really steep, and dodgy surface, not all at the same time, but it never lets up.
Not a DD hill, but if you can climb Federal Street without pausing between the library and Lafayette Avenue, consider yourself in good enough physical shape.
If you're feeling up to it, then you can come back down Perrysville*, jiggle over to Henderson, climb that, and make your way over to Hazleton to climb the top half of S/H/B.
Ought to make for a fun afternoon.
*Learn this little area here.
Start at Federal & North.
- Straight up Federal, to top.
- L Perrysville.
- R Federal (watch your speed, as you may have to stop for traffic for this next turn)
- L Henderson
- L Carrie
- R Warren
- L Rising Main
- R Biggs, becomes Glenrose/Hazleton
- the DD part of Hazleton starts as you pass Suffolk
- L Burgess
There has been a water break at Burgess and Osgood, so once you've gotten to that, consider the day a success.
- Continue to end, L Perrysville, and return to town.
The lowest gear I had was 38/30, which worked out perfectly for me -- pushing/pulling hard but still moving the feet fast enough that it wasn't totally like dead-lifting barbells.
My new setup has a 34/28 as my lowest gear. Last year was a 34/25. the 34/28 is just a bit easier than what Karen had in terms of gear inches. I would definitely recommend a compact with at least a 27 as your biggest gear in the back if not a 28. Unless you're an elite racer that is.
Bad news, even the elite guys are on that gearing. Last time I did it was on a 34x27. At least at the time Steevo was running the same thing, maybe a 36x27.
I can say for sure that Danny Chew's recommended low gear is too high for anyone but Danny.
I swear that the guy on the single speed this past weekend was 46-22. Unless I heard him wrong... He got up the hills faster than me (not hard to do).
I've done seven of the hills on whatever gearing comes stock with 80's road bikes. 28/something.
To answer your question: Hard. I did that last summer and it was the most physically exhausting thing I've done. I forgot how, but I think I ran into trees on Logan.
I also made the rookie mistake of being in a high gear coming down that one hill that crosses a road and then immediately starts another. The problem was exacerbated by the fact that I was using friction shifting and didn't realize I was going the wrong way. (highest gear)
I'd try some of the hills on your own, see how you do.
It was fun and I'm glad I did it.
Ive done Dirty Dozen a few times - 3 times 'officially' with Danny and Tom and Hal driving support. So you know its been awhile. 2 were done on a road bike. 1 on a road equipped mountain bike.
I have also done the DD unofficially, at least once or twice with Danny, and once or twice on my own. All unofficial rides did NOT go through Liberty tunnels
None of the rides had any where near the turn out of the PBS video, so there was not much stopping, except at 1/2 way and Canton.
The ride is a lot of work. The climbs *are* brutal. If you ride regularly on the local roads and can ride 75 miles in one day/ride - and not just the rail-trails, you can probably do DD.
You will remember it.
What is the date for the DD this year?
Edit: Nevermind...a bit more googling tells me it's always the Saturday after Thanksgiving, which would make it Dec 1 this year.
Nov 24
Thank you pbeaver for posting the QED/Sebak 2010 ride video. nice thread.
I'm going to pick up another cassette to have around and was going to go 11-28 but now I'm wondering if I can swap my Tri bike crank and pick up a 34t little ring as its a 110bcd crank. I admittedly am confused as hell with bottom bracket stuff. Tri crank is MegaExo, road bike has a SRAM red crank that is bb86.
@pierce I forgot how, but I think I ran into trees on Logan.
Did the tree have lights? Were they wearing bright colors? Did they pay taxes and have registration?
@boostuv - The specs for my 105 rear derailleur say it can only handle up to a 28t so you need to look up the specs for whats on your bike. If you want to use a 34t you may need a different rear derailleur. Also if you swap out the rear cassette to a 34t you probably need to lengthen the chain
@ Boostuv.
34t
As the resident granny gear maven, I'm warning you - look at the second gear on that cassette.
A lot of cassettes with 34 teeth, jsut take a regualr cassette and put one large gear on - meaning second gear is 26 teeth.
That is a heckuva jump. You could end up wishing you had a gear in the middle for about half a dozen hills.
@boostuv, if you are only going to use this for one specific purpose (and not going to use the bigger ring), just plop it on and go. Why change derailers and such if you don't have to.
If in doubt, go ask Jerry @ Krainicks
Oops a bit of confusion on that. I meant picking up an 11-28 cassette AND trying to see if I can swap my MegaExo compact crank (with a 34t small chainring) onto my bb86 frame (which has a 53/39 SRAM red crank)
> Saturday after Thanksgiving, which would make it Dec 1 this year.
The 1st is a Thursday, so Thanksgiving is early this year: Sat after will be the 24th.
I used to live in Fineview just off the Rising Main hill, and have friends on Eleanor steps & near the top of Hazelwood Ave, but sadly, I'm always at my parents' in Michigan for the holiday, so I don't think I'm ever going to even see, let alone participate in, this madness...
Boostuv, I'm pretty sure you're not going to be able to get your MegaExo crankset onto your BB86 frame without an adapter.
If you do get an adapter, you'll want to make sure you check your chain length once you get everything all together. You don't want a chain with all kinds of extra links while you're trying to get up those hills.
After posting I looked up a bit about it and I think the adapter might be the best route.
I still don't think you need gearing that low.
You'd have a hard time convincing me to do the DD on something higher than 34/28 as my lowest gearing.
I guess I have forgotten how hard Logan is.
I'll set a reminder for you Sunday am.
