BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Lane splitting/filtering isn't legal in PA, so probably the cyclist's fault.

From what I read of it, the law is to prevent people from clobbering cyclists from people who gun it to pass, and then jam the brakes to make a turn. All in all, it's a poorly worded, poorly thought out part of the law IMHO.

Whenever you're about to turn right, move to the far right side of the lane and put on your turn signal. If there's a bike lane, merge into the bike lane before turning. This pretty much avoids the possibility of a right hook.

i am not a lawyer, but i suspect that if you are stopped and about to turn at a signal, you would have no concerns about the new law. in fact, the old laws should've covered right hooks, but enough people were yelled at by cops after being hit by cars that it was felt necessary to (re-)codify it.

the right hook is essentially when you pass someone on a bicycle, and THEN cut in front of him, causing him to stop dangerously, or catapult over the hood of your suddenly turning car. if someone comes flying up next to you as you are making your turn, you ought have no concerns about liability.

still, it pays to look, just to be safe. there are a lot of foolish people out there, and some of them ride bikes (to nicen up a borrowed phrase).

also: it is my understanding that under certain circumstances, there is nothing illegal about filtering. in fact (though i can't find it now), the penndot website has a few sentences that all but encourage the practice.

Just make sure you use your signal. Any cyclist with a hint of self preservation wouldn't filter up to the right, past a moving car with a right turn blinker on. Personally, I wont filter past anyone with a blinker on unless they are 100% stopped, and even then I wouldn't do it unless I will be stopped well in front of them.

As far as looking behind you before you turn, you should be doing this anyway. If you right turn into a pedestrian crossing as the light turns green, it will be 100% your fault.

Here's the relevant section from the new law:

Section 3331(e) Required position and method of turning is amended to read:

Interference with pedalcycles. -- No turn by a driver of a motor vehicle shall interfere with a pedalcycle proceeding straight while operating in accordance with Chapter 35 (relating to special vehicles and pedestrians).

Chapter 35 says cyclists have to follow the same rules as motorists, but with various exceptions. None of those exceptions lets a cyclist go straight through a red light.

So a cyclist doing so would be violating Chapter 35, and therefore this new provision wouldn't apply to you if you hit him.

Of course, if you do hit someone, the fact that you won't face some $25 fine isn't going to seem very important. Try to stay aware of cyclists that may be lane-splitting, but more importantly, come to a complete stop before turning, and signal your turn well before making it (not at the moment you start turning, as some do).

If you follow John's advice and move to the far right side of the lane before turning, presumably you'd look first to make sure you're not forcing a bike next to you off the road.

HV, the PennDOT web page that seems to encourage filtering is here (recently moved):

These traffic-jam tactics are reasonably safe, but in some cities it may not be legal for a bicyclist to pass on the right or ride between lanes of traffic. On the other hand, it’s usually legal for you, or any driver, to cautiously disobey normal traffic rules when the road is “obstructed.”

It's vague because it's from a non-PA-specific cycling-safety book that PennDOT got permission to copy. Whether filtering is legal in normal traffic in PA isn't clear to me, but claiming that a red light has "obstructed" traffic (so normal rules may be ignored) seems like a considerable stretch.

"...am I really supposed to check behind me to make a right turn? "

Yes, of course. Since I resumed riding four years ago, I do it reflexively for just that reason - to avoid a person on a bike who might be filtering up along side me on my right.

Most modern cars have right-side mirrors. Use them. At a red light, a perfectly good test to verify that it is pointed correctly is to take note of a cyclist (filtering or not) on the shoulder, and make sure you can see him/her in it.

Not sure why anyone would drive away from a stop without looking in all of their mirrors, especially when turning.

This is a right hook.

am I really supposed to check behind me to make a right turn? Especially from a red light?

I always look before I turn right.

Ah, I didn't realize the language was specific to motorcycles.

PA - Lane Splitting § 3523. Operating motorcycles on roadways laned for traffic (b) Overtaking and passing.--The operator of a motorcycle shall not overtake and pass in the same lane occupied by the vehicle being overtaken. (c) Operation between lanes or vehicles.--No person shall operate a motorcycle between lanes of traffic or between adjacent lines or rows of vehicles.

Just to be clear, I was talking about being the first car in line at a red light, with my turn signal on, waiting for it to turn green. When it turns green, I make the right hand turn.

And I'm supposed to make sure that a cyclist is not coming up behind me to pass me on the right before I make the turn?

When I come to a stop sign, I check to the front, left and right of me. I do not check behind me. I do not check my side view mirrors.

Don't ya think it would be wise to be aware of everything around you? Lots of reasons beyond people on bicycles.

This is the number one reason why it's more dangerous to ride on the sidewalk than on the road. Drivers never look at what's coming from behind when turning.

I think this is more a matter of right of way here.

Is filtering legal?

If so, does a cyclist that is filtering have the right of way?

INAL, but I would think the vehicle ahead would "hold" the position, and therefore have the right of way. The filtering bike, coming up from behind would need to yield (in Eric's scenario).

Similarly, if a cyclist were "taking the lane," he would have the right of way, and the motor vehicle approaching from behind would either yield or pass with 4' clearance.

(But I am assuming "filtering" means advancing from the rear on the right hand side...)

When I come to a stop sign, I check to the front, left and right of me. I do not check behind me. I do not check my side view mirrors.

More than most people do, but I would suggest checking behind you as well. You check behind your car and use your mirrors when changing lanes, no? So why not get in the habit of checking before you turn. As I mentioned above, it isn't just about bikes. It could be a jogger, a little kid, an emergency vehicle, etc.

Here's aquestion: Does the 4 ft rule go both ways? Is it illegal in a practical sense to filter because you are not giving the cars 4 ft clearance?

The 4 foot rule applies specifically to the "driver of a motor vehicle", so no, it wouldn't make filtering illegal. (If it's illegal, it's not because of that.)

Edited to add:

Text of the bill

for what it's worth, i agree that it's a good practice to check what's behind you before you move your vehicle to a side perpendicular to the direction of travel. i know i do it automatically, but i think it's from riding a bike so much, and i even do it when i'm walking in a crowded area.

that said, though, a person who is paying a reasonable amount of attention should already have a good idea what obstacles might jump out in front of you as you make your turn. you've just passed that jogger, or those pedestrians, or even that cyclist who still thinks it's a good idea to ride on the sidewalk, or blow through an intersection without regard to the turn signals on the cars in front of him.

I dunno, HV. Going back to the original scenario, if you're the first car at a light, so maybe you've been there awhile, and a cyclist has filtered up... I could see that coming as a surprise. That is the exact reason I peek over my right shoulder in those situations.

Head. On. Swivel.

As a cyclist, if you had the right turn signal on your car flashing and were at the front of the line, I wouldn't get in front of you (or beside you), even if I was in a bike lane.

If you were 2 cars or so back and traffic wasn't moving, I'd probably pass on the right, but not if you were the first 1 or 2 cars. Just seems like common sense to me.

As a driver, I'd be at least looking back enough to make sure pedestrians were not going to jump through the intersection where I'm turning.

OP, if you're the first car stopped at a light, have your turn signal on, do a reasonable 360 deg check, including mirrors (when I learned to drive, I was taught to have constant 360 deg awareness anyway), and make your turn. I am not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure if a cyclist, comes up from your right rear in the process of making what effectively is an illegal curb side pass, and hits your passenger door, they would be the one in error under the law and you would be covered. I don't think that situation is the intent of the right hook rule.

Now if you and a cyclist came to the light simultaneously and stopped at the light, the cyclist would have the right of way and you would need to wait until they cleared the intersection.

But this is all from the logic in my own head, only a judge could interpret for sure.

Maybe I should clarify - I *do* look at the sidewalk to make sure no one is walking or jogging into the crosswalk, but I meant pretty much behind me, between my car/the car behind me and the parked cars.

However, I'm now paranoid about checking completely around me when I turn, so I'll do a quick glance at all my mirrors.

Thanks everyone for your insight.