BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

South Oakland. Downhill to downtown around 15 minutes via Bates & EFT, plus some for North Shore, but you're still up on the plateau for easy access to Central Oakland, Hot Metal to South Side, all areas on East End. Access to Schenley, access to Frick for singletrack. Easy access to GAP (bike camping/touring) & Waterfront. Lots of culture via museums & whatnot. Many options. Been a lot of new single family housing and refabs occurring. Buy in the neighborhood.

How about Downtown itself? Rent costs are about the same as for similar units in the Strip. Car parking is a cost to consider, as most buildings don't have their own parking and you are at the mercy of Alco and PGH Parking. However, residents pay about 40% less for a monthly parking lease. You'd also have to deal with gameday traffic and theater traffic, which can be annoying. For quietness, it depends on which part of Downtown you are in, how high up you are, and how sensitive you are to even the smallest sound. As for safety, Downtown is fine. No different than many other residential areas in the city. Shopping can be an issue, but that depends on what you shop for on a regular basis. In terms of groceries, there's a Giant Eagle on the north side, but it's not particularly good. The Strip is a mile away, so you are 5-10 mins away by bike/car and the bike lane on Penn makes it pretty easy to get there. However, if you need to go to a Target/Wal-mart type place all the time, you are at least 15 mins away by car/bus. Or you can always order stuff online...

I work downtown and live in Lawrenceville, which I picked largely because of the bike commute. At 20-30 minutes (depending on how fast you're riding and where you're going) it's long enough to be good exercise but short enough that it's still a better option than driving or the bus. Lawrenceville has gotten quite a bit more expensive in recent years, but it's close to a lot of shopping, and unless you're right off of Butler it's pretty quiet, and it's also very safe.

@chrishent Car parking is a cost to consider Why?

@mick, just merely pointing that out, since I'm not familiar with @RustyRed's transportation needs. For the record, I think it's totally doable to live and work downtown without owning a car. You can ride your bike as much as you like, most of the bus routes go through downtown at some point, you can grab a cab/Uber/Lyft fairly easily, or you can rent a car (Zipcar or the regular kind of rental) if you really need one. Then again, you can have a car while living downtown and scavenge for free parking spots, or park illegally all the time and hope you don't get towed.

And yeah, there's the whole walking thing, too. I hear that's good for you

Yeah, living downtown would change the most of the variables in the "Can I live car-free?" equation.

Yes, eventually, the focus is on going car free and just renting a car on an as needed basis.

There's also new housing going in next to the Smithfield street bridge in SouthSide, as well as right off of the HotMetal bridge. I think both developments have mentioned bike friendly storage, etc. And for value, I think Milvale and Homestead both have great potential with easy bike connections.

I'd move to Millvale if I could. It has some problems, though, notably a lack of grocery options. The one Shop'n Save is not at all close or accessible. Also, much of the housing stock that isn't in a flood zone is on incredibly steep slopes, and is very old. Think wiring, insulation, etc.

In one alternate imaginary reality of mine, I convince all the cool people I know to buy houses and move into the Lower Greenfield holler and create a weirdo/creative/hippie/punk/arts ghetto. Then it occurs to me that I am probably the only person on Facebook with <25 "friends". And one of them is a bridge.

The hollow would be all kinds of awesome if there were good routes up to Greenfield and Squirrel Hill. If something even passable exists, let me know because there's someone I know in need of cheap housing.

@Edmonds +1; I like the FB quality and quantity detail. I like the concept as well.

Obviously Bloomfield. It is close to downtown (just downhill through Upper Lawrenceville and the Strip) and has a bike lane or sharrows the whole way if you take Liberty and then switch over to Penn at 32nd. On the way home you have to go up Liberty, but it's a gradual climb and there's a bike lane the whole way so who cares. It is a nice, quiet neighborhood and I don't think it's really more expensive than other areas (to my knowledge, at least). A lot of families and old heads live there which is nice because there's not a ton of college idiots or anything to contend with. For shopping, there's a grocery store, convenience stores, Italian grocers and a few drug stores (both independent and Rite Aid types). You're just up the hill from Lawrenceville and not far at all from East Liberty and Shadyside in case you'd rather go to one of the Giant Eagles or Whole Foods or something. There's a ton of bars and restaurants that are cool. It's no contest.

Bloomfield is nice, along with adjoining parts of Lawrenceville and Friendship. Bear in mind that the housing might seem small if you're used to larger spaces. But the amenities are hard to beat. Also consider Garfield: some people might consider it an iffy area, but it's really started to change, especially on the uphill bits (which, yes, requires climbing). And East Liberty. There's also Polish Hill. And Troy Hill. (This word "hill" seems to keep coming up...) Millvale might have issues with occasional flooding (though supposedly the necessary public works have been carried out); the western side of town is not all that steep. Closer to town is Allegheny, though I don't know enough about it. [My impressions are a combination of knowing people who live (or have lived) in these neighborhoods as well as just biking around. I would do the latter and see what you like.]

Obligatory reference to a past discussion about a related topic here.

I wonder if the new housing going in to the Strip and Lawrenceville isn't going to be quite expensive? I also wonder if Polish Hill isn't about to become the new Lawrenceville, based on location over topography and services. But I don't know much about PH. Is it secure?

I was wondering about Polish Hill myself... and Friendship.

Hmm, well, I'd just point out that concerns about security are probably overblown. Crime is at historic low levels. It's safer now than it's been in my entire lifetime, and I'm no spring chicken. But on the question, specifically, you can consult the 2010 Pittsburgh Police report at http://www.pittsburghpa.gov/police/files/annual_reports/10_Police_Annual_Report.pdf. Polish Hill looks pretty safe -- probably the lowest # of offenses like assault of any neighborhood discussed.

@Vannevar, re: rents of new units: With so many new units coming available now and in the near future (Bakery Square, Strip, etc), isn't it likely that rents will be depressed for existing units? I was just an English major, but when supply > demand, don't costs tend to drop? I guess the new units themselves may cost more at least initially, but with so many hitting the market, I suspect rents will drop. And, it will be interesting to see how this plays out regarding all the existing units in the east-end: will rents drop to the point that landowners look at selling, or turning 8-unit houses (i.e. Friendship) into 2 or three unit condos or duplexes, etc. I really think all of these new units being built throughout the city are going to fundamentally change the residential landscape in unknown ways.

Thanks @Jon - data is better than anecdotes, great link! @ALMKLM I think you're quite right.

To RR's original question, if the plan is to commute to NSide, I might be tempted to build in Woods Run. There are plenty of vacant lots, and several buildings that probably should be pulled down before they become a real problem. * Little traffic to deal with * Level travel by bike * Easy access to a trail * Plenty of bus service on the 16 Brighton * Even more if you don't mind a climb up to California Ave

Morningside. In the future. I hear that there is supposed to be a commuter trail from Heth's Run down to along the river eventually, connecting through to downtown vid the the strip (or whatever bridge you want to take to the north side). For now, if you want a minimal sharetheroadwithcars commute, it isn't too bad if you want to go down to the Highland Park Bridge and ride the sidewalk (when there isn't snow on it), take the road for a bit and pick up the access road along the railroad that eventually turns into the Millvalle trail. If I am not mistaken, there is to be a trail that goes to Fox Chapel from Millvale? Then go to the north side/downtown. Morningside is pretty close to target and giant eagle via ELB bike lanes, as well as Bakery Square and such. Right now I live in Morningside and commute to the North Side. But I also leave at 5am so I don't know what a normal commute in traffic is like.

"I was wondering about Polish Hill myself… and Friendship." I'm a big fan of Polish Hill. A pair of friends were living there and commuting to Oakland for a while. @gimpPAC is currently there, commuting to the South Side (I believe).

Just some $.02 thoughts from someone car-free. -it’s nice to have a grocery store in-between home and work – this way you combine trips and lessen the need for “big” grocery trips. -it’s nice to have the downhill on the morning commute & the uphill on the way home - from a sweat perspective. -living near restaurants/bars/department stores is great – but how often will you frequent these. Think about an extra mile every once in a while compared to an extra mile every day. -even a short distance of a horrible road will ruin your commute. -winter routes may be different than summer routes. -how close is the bus stop? Car-share? Bike shop? -a half hour commute can be a 5 minute bike ride followed by a 25 minute bus ride – or a 25 minute bike ride can replace a 60+ minute two-bus commute. I’m sure there other things too, but you get the idea.