BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

map link didn't work for me even copy pasted.

i apologize for my lack of internet skills. hopefully now it works

Another reason to open up the Wabash Tunnel to bikes. Definitely a thumbs-up from me!

Can we please get a little more info on how to get to these trails and traces?

i odn't know how much of it exists anymore but further into south park there used to be a trail that connected to the montour/arrowhead trail... it was like a secret unofficial trail but people used it all the time

You can connect that greenway by brashier all the

way to south hills village through woods in backyards and the like. need a mountain bike.

I like the idea, but think the biggest hurdle will be land access rights. The trail proposed currently runs along active railroad tracks. If the RR will agree to using their land and land adjacent to their tracks this shouldn't be that hard of a trail to complete.

Stu - when you come out of the Wabash Tunnels, head towards 51. Instead of turning onto 51, go straight across (not really legal since it's now an oncoming traffic lane.) In the same lot area as the City salt dome there is an old brick tunnel that sits off to the side. That will lead you onto the trail marked in green.

The purple trail connecting to the red trail made cutting HS and walking home unnoticed pretty easy

The rail trail over west end circle looks cool. Do you have any more information on that?

The West Busway was originally intended to run all the way from near the Corliss Tunnel to a bridge to be built over the Mon by the Wabash Tunnel. The RR was amenable to the idea of the busway, but the powers that be delayed the project so damn long the RR changed its mind, which is why the WB ends by that flyover onto West Carson. Anyway, there should be plenty of space to put a bike path. Rotsa ruck getting any RR to go along with a bike path next to a live track, though.

buzz1980 - Thanks for the pointer. Sounds cool, but since I only get out that way once every 2 or 3 months, can someone else do a bit of exploring here? Meanwhile, I'll work on Port Authority about the Wabash Tunnel.

First of all...I suggest that anyone viewing the map i made to look at it in satellite view and to get real close, so to see all the intricacies involved.

Well the majority of the adjacent track lies around 10 to 15 feet above the proposed route to the bike trail. only when the trail meets the "cool tunnel" section, at the entrance of the greenway on route 51, does it come to the same elevation. So we are talking almost 2 miles of uninterrupted trail from Carson street to Woodruff. As far as the luck I'd need getting the R.R. to go along with a bike path near a live railway, look at the southside riverfront trail. It crosses a heavily used railway three times. I am asking for one crossing. I know that the rails to trails initiative has been looking into this route for some time now. No news on that as of yet. This possibility exists there just needs to be some more of what I like to call nagging. That and a lot of fund raising and time. I highly encourage everyone to check out this awesome section of Pittsburgh park space for themselves. Seldom-Seen will capture your imagination.

The history of Seldom-Seen is quite interesting in itself. I am working a lot on that as well. I have compiled old maps from the 1850s showing where old property lines used to be and the names of who owned homes there. The village of Seldom-Seen was never a part of the city of Pittsburgh until 1920. If you were to wander through the greenway you will find lots of antique treasures from the homes that once stood here. I've found baby doll heads, an old washing machine, a car or two, loads of glass bottles and other strange trinkets.

One of the first steps in achieving my goal is cleanup. I hope to work in conjunction with local artists to recycle the artifacts into sculpture or something useful i.e. some scrap metal into bike racks. I will have more on everything eventually once I get some stuff I'm working on finalized. But if anyone has any more input please feel free.

here is a link to an old map I used in my research. notice crane ave. to the south and the complete absence of route 51.http://images.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/i/image/image-idx?view=entry;cc=hopkins;entryid=x-17v07p07

I thought that both of the RR tracks that ran through that area were still active. However looking at the satellite view, the one set clearly isn't in use, so that eliminates one hurdle.

It's a shame that the bridge over West Liberty isn't wider. It would be nice to be able to easily connect this trail to Pioneer, the proposed parking and potentially further down 51, though I think the terrain eliminates that thought also.

One other question, who owns the bridge that would connect the trail to the Wabash Tunnel area? Is that PennDot, Port Authority or property of the business that sits on the hill.

I've always been intrigued with that "cool tunnel" but have never ventured back there...maybe this would be a good weekend to grab a camera and explore

That looks cool. Did official Bike-PGH read this thread as something to keep in the back of their heads? A non-NASCAR link to a tunnel through the hill would be cool. Maybe something off of Dawn would connect it to W Liberty?

What I was thinking was: (A) Get Port Authority to open up the Wabash Tunnel to bikes, ( Use the existing bridge over Rt51 in line with the end of the Wabash Tunnel at the intersection of 51 and Woodruff, (C) Get down to trail level once on the S side of 51. What's in the way, other than legalities?

What's in the way, other than legalities?

Funding?

get those 2 covered and everything should be good to go

Well I have already met with PTAG and am in the process of talking to city council(hard to get a hold of those folks especially this week). I have also spoken with the Mount Washington Citizen's Development group about the link over route 51. Their group has just started a new trails project too. so the possibilities are expanding and the people are coming together. It's going to be sweet.

When I win the lottery, Pittsburgh is going to have some awesome trails.

I guess what Netviln means is never or when we're all dead and gone

Just saying funding takes a while.. and so does the political and corporate process. Example being the ss trail past sandcastle.

I think this seldomseen trail would be terrific. I used to live in beechview and definitely would have used it.

I know the wabash tunnel is restricted to one lane car traffic, so I dont see there being a logistical problem with putting an inbound and outbound bikelane on it, but its PATs tunnel and since more bikers mean less revenue, then they will be hesitant to accept the idea.

It would be even more awesome if the seldom seen trail could then be connected to say overbrook, or even mt lebo and dormont.

It's a two-lane tunnel, but not a single bus route uses it, and never has. Nor are there plans to use it AFAIK. I really don't know what their problem is, but I intend to find out.

Looking at aerial photos, I don't see how to get from the S end of that bridge over 51 to the trail. Looks like a very narrow railroad bridge is the only way to get across the stream. Also, isn't that stream famous for flash floods?

I went out scouting Saturday afternoon, looking for it. The West End Circle continues to be a bit of a disaster, and although the RR tracks continue into the construction site, you can't actually get onto them there. Access can be found at Alexander St, with a bit of through-the-woods.

These tracks are not ridable. Maybe if you have suspension, not otherwise. Not over the ties, not over the ballast, just no. I walked up to Woodruff and rode back through the Wabash Tunnel.

The track has definitely not been used for a while. Lots of weeds growing up through the ties, a decent layer of rust on the tracks. For the most part, turning it into a trail would require only pulling up the tracks and putting down a few inches of limestone over the ties. The long trestle crossing over Wabash+McKnight+Woodville would take substantially more effort to make into a publicly usable bike path.

There are two tracks -- the southern one still in use, but they are not adjacent to each other -- generally not visible -- I don't see that it'd be a problem for the functioning railroad to have people using the other as a trail.

I guess the Seldom-Seen trails intersect at a number of places. At Woodruff Street, there's a trail going south, upstream, which cuts under the two railroad bridges. Nice brick and stonework under those bridges. A pretty spot.

I think the idea has real potential, I saw only a bit of the possible trail, but what I saw was great.

I am stoked that you went out there, nfranzen! It is kind of hard to describe all the terrain and intricacies of the trail. You've just got to see it for yourself. One other thing about the area is the awesome graffiti on the retaining walls for the tracks. It changes frequently and the detail of some of the artists is just astonishing. for your next trip try the hike starting from Brashear. the woods are beautiful and very peaceful.

The graffiti is awesome, I intended to mention it but forgot.

If it were a bike trail, and if you could simply and safely ride through the West End Circle, and then over the West End Bridge, or down Carson to Smithfield...that would be dreamy.

You can understand, now, why I am obsessed with this. Pittsburgh's crumbling railroad infrastructure has been re purposed in the past as busways. So as we look forward to a greener more forward thinking future doesn't it seem the logical next step to preserve our beautiful hillsides and create a bike transport friendly alternative? Biking, for the city, is far more cost effective than if it were to say, build more trolley routes. Biking encourages health and promotes cleaner air by using less fossil fuels. I suppose I am kind of preaching to the choir here but it just gets me so passionate to find something that could work and be so great for us.